Tom Perez Elected DNC Chair

[Lexicus]

It's funny cause as soon as I read this: literally the first thing that popped into my head was that's how kids feel about parents...

The author of that quote also said this:
I believe the authority of parent over child, husband over wife, learned over simple to have been as much a part of the original plan as the authority of man over beast. I believe that if we had not fallen...patriarchal monarchy would be the sole lawful government.

 

[jackelgull]

They can't say that because it would be both appallingly hypocritical and uncharacteristically non-PC. Publicly taking a stance like this would be a tacit endorsement of the approach that the current administration rode in on.

And frankly I think it would just be a chicken-squeeze, slimy, cowardly position to take in general.

Islam and Muslims in general have gotten an improved public image in the Trump era - his travel ban has turned us from threats to victims (Not really that preferable an alternative, I'd prefer to be citizen, but it is an improvement), but let's not forget the 2014 thread the Islamaphobia split on the left. Even among moderates the attitude still lingers. A Muslim in the DNC chair might turn off some moderates, especially one that has defended the Nation of Islam from anti Semitism charges. You can bet the Republicans would be screaming Sharia as soon as Keith Ellison got confirmed.

The Democratic Party might not publicly say it, but I'm sure it was discussed behind closed doors

 

[Sommerswerd]

The author of that quote also said this:

Religious Fundamentalists tend to say stuff like that.

 

[Sommerswerd]

You can bet the Republicans would be screaming Sharia as soon as Keith Ellison got confirmed.

Let them. Makes it easier to tie the President's circus to their necks like an anvil.

 

[Lexicus]

Religious Fundamentalists tend to say stuff like that.

That they do.

Islam and Muslims in general have gotten an improved public image in the Trump era - his travel ban has turned us from threats to victims (Not really that preferable an alternative, I'd prefer to be citizen, but it is an improvement), but let's not forget the 2014 thread the Islamaphobia split on the left. Even among moderates the attitude still lingers. A Muslim in the DNC chair might turn off some moderates, especially one that has defended the Nation of Islam from anti Semitism charges. You can bet the Republicans would be screaming Sharia as soon as Keith Ellison got confirmed.

I'm sure they would have, but as a leftist I know from experience the right will make those kinds of attacks whether they're warranted or not. How many years did they spend saying that Obama was a secret Kenyan Muslim? How many years have they spent calling any suggestion that the rich should pay higher taxes Bolshevism?

I don't think the Democrats ought to be deciding what to do based on what crazy things the Republicans might accuse them of.

 

[metalhead]

Democrats' inherent fear of the opposition's attacks is perhaps their worst political instinct. You notice how Republicans never give a crap when the left accuses them of things like waging a war on women, or being homophobic, and just go ahead with their policies even when nobody wants them? You wanna know why people identify with Republican candidates individually much more than Democrats despite the Republican party having a much worse image overall? Because they're unapologetic. Because they don't turn tail and run because their opponents might say mean things about them. Because they're willing to own being terrible.

 

[Farm Boy]

The author of that quote also said this:
I believe the authority of parent over child, husband over wife, learned over simple to have been as much a part of the original plan as the authority of man over beast. I believe that if we had not fallen...patriarchal monarchy would be the sole lawful government.

You really need to take C.S. Lewis in totality if you want to come after him as a source, rather than his statements on their own merits each. He wrote for a long time, and he said a lot of things. Some of which are insightful.

"If we cut up beasts simply because they cannot prevent us and because we are backing our own side in the struggle for existence, it is only logical to cut up imbeciles, criminals, enemies, or capitalists for the same reasons.”

You also need to incorporate his blindingly obvious foundation - that we are fallen. Which means we are not "on the original plan."

 

[Lexicus]

You also need to incorporate his truth of the blindingly obvious foundation - that we are fallen. Which means we are not "on the original plan."

Yes, I just thought that quote was an interesting juxtaposition with the one you posted.

 

[Farm Boy]

The world's chock-full of 'em!

 

[Sommerswerd]

I cut up beasts because they are quite delicious. Its got nothing to do with their ability to prevent me. I'm sure a full grown bull could give me a run for my money, and I know I couldn't catch a chicken right now if my life depended on it. But if my life actually did depend on it, I'd take the time to learn, cause I luvs tender vittles

 

[Gori the Grey]

I believe the authority of parent over child, husband over wife, learned over simple to have been as much a part of the original plan as the authority of man over beast. I believe that if we had not fallen...patriarchal monarchy would be the sole lawful government.

It would be interesting to run that part of it by the anti (coastal, urban, latte-sipping)-elitists who rode Trump into office and see what they think.

 

[Farm Boy]

Do presume they'd stop long enough to sort out that it is an attack on simply accepting all those things without them being tempered? Or are you presuming they wouldn't? It almost has to change your takeaway, doesn't it?

 

[Sommerswerd]

I will admit that I didn't even notice that particular clause until Gori pointed it out.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I didn't say any overriding went on, I said there must have been some overriding need to have Perez as chair, since the price paid is a symbolic middle finger to the younger, more left-wing voters the Democrats supposedly need to turn out if they want to win elections.

Ok I'll repeat -

What overriding need? I refuse to believe there is or was a consipiracy to keep Perez from chair. I also refuse to believe it matters. The democrats need better candidates, not perfect DNC leadership.

If this attitude is representative of the majority of the party- that 'hardly anyone' cared, so the party shouldn't care- then it's hard for me not to despair. I don't think that's a winning attitude, and it makes it increasingly difficult for me, a leftist who defends the Democratic Party to other leftists, to sustain my position that working within and supporting the Democratic Party is the best move for leftists.

You're making the perfect the enemy of the good.

@jackelgull has made a case that the party can't have a Muslim in such an important position because of the danger of driving Islamophobic turnout for the Republicans. That may be a valid concern, but if so it seems to me to be exactly the kind of centrist triangulating strategy that failed in 2016. And I don't recall hearing that logic from any of the party voices who endorsed Perez.

From what I can see we're hearing the same kind of stuff we heard in the aftermath of Hillary's victory in the primaries- "we can take our voters for granted because the Republicans are just that terrible."

That calculation did not work in 2016. I don't think it's going to work moving forward.

I don't think Ellison's religion had anything whatsoever to do with his loss. In fact I would think it would have worked in his favor given how much people like you and I want to show off the party's diversity in the face of the ceaseless, unrepentant racism displayed by the right.

And to the bolded - where are you even getting this from? Seriously you read like you're still butthurt about Bernie losing and are of the opinion that he lost due to a conspiracy - a conspiracy of sorts to undermine and work against the party's own base because reasons - that still goes on to this day. Please show me the error of my ways.

Then again, the teahadists spent years hang-wringing and agitating for purity and they did win after all. Multiple times. So maybe there's something to this approach.

 

[schlaufuchs]

I agree I think it's kind of dumb how many are jumping to make the conclusion
Ellison = Bernie
Perez = Hillary
Therefore,
Disaster

But who's Maguire?

 

[hobbsyoyo]

You know he can source that, right? DNC and the Clinton campaign managed to leak a bunch of it.

Now that I think of it, no wonder the White House is pissed about leaks. It's making them look as incompetent as Democrats.

J

They didn't leak.

It was stolen by Russian spies and dispersed to the media with coordination with and cooperation from the Republican party.

Jeff Sessions perjured himself to cover up meetings that could have been easily explainable. Of course he talked about Ukraine with the Russian ambassador (his own admission, "I don't know how but Ukraine just came up") so I can understand why he lied. He was trading favors with him to get his man in office because party is more important than country to the teahadists.

In any case this is going to play out like Watergate. There's been a burst of activity now but it will slow to a trickle and shift to the back burner. But Trump's team can help but lying about all the little things, which will provoke an unending stream of minor investigations which will culminate in the big things coming out. Just like Nixon.

I'm sorry but Trump committed treason. The writing's on the wall and we're going to put your guy in prison.

 

[Sommerswerd]

So let it be written, so let it be done. I am Pharaoh, the morning and the evening star

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Bahaha yeah I turned up the bombast

 

[onejayhawk]

So let it be written, so let it be done. I am Pharaoh, the morning and the evening star

Classic. Did you shave your head before making the pronouncement?

J

 

[Sommerswerd]

No, but I plan on shaving it tonight if you must know...