Tony Blair: The Official Poll

[7ronin]

Blair's portrayal in both print and television journalism in the United States tends to be fairly neutral and is usually explicated in the context of the war in Iraq. If I never listened to any of our British friends in CFC I would think that he was a good but not a great, popular at home and abroad, with a strong sense of purpose about Britain's place and role in the 21st Century. Sometimes the view here is that's he's not lapdog enough.

 

[Atropos]

Tony Blair is a liar and a poodle, and he has destroyed the Labour party by taking too far from it's root's and has abandoned the working class cause in favour of big-buisness .

How, exactly, has he destroyed the Labour Party by getting it elected?

 

[Mise]

How, exactly, has he destroyed the Labour Party by getting it elected?

They're no longer the "Labour" party, in that they no longer represent the views of the working class.

 

[Oruc]

the working class still votes for them though.

 

[ComradeDavo]

How, exactly, has he destroyed the Labour Party by getting it elected?

I think Mise answered this one well. Labour was a Socialist party. It was foudned by working class socialists, with the purpose of state ownserhip. Untill Blair it always gave the unions alot of power, but not it's all thinktanks and cash for peerages.

 

[Atropos]

I think Mise answered this one well. Labour was a Socialist party. It was foudned by working class socialists, with the purpose of state ownserhip. Untill Blair it always gave the unions alot of power, but not it's all thinktanks and cash for peerages.

It was also out of office for a generation prior to Blair. A party of "working class socialists, with the purpose of state ownership" would not win an election today.

I might add that, in the words of the best-known historian of the early Labour party, Ross McKibbon, Labour from the beginning was "a party with a socialist objective but no socialist ideology."

 

[ComradeDavo]

It was also out of office for a generation prior to Blair. A party of "working class socialists, with the purpose of state ownership" would not win an election today.

I might add that, in the words of the best-known historian of the early Labour party, Ross McKibbon, Labour from the beginning was "a party with a socialist objective but no socialist ideology."

Basically, if the Labour party really was a 'Labour party' then why has it infurirated the Unions, driven away the left-wing and had so many members leave it?

 

[Atropos]

Basically, if the Labour party really was a 'Labour party' then why has it infurirated the Unions, driven away the left-wing and had so many members leave it?

Except that it hasn't driven away its left wing, just annoyed the h--- out of it.

Saying that Blair has transformed the Labour Party (abandoning its more traditional values in the process) is not quite the same thing as saying that he has destroyed it. The Labour Party in its Michael Foot/ Tony Benn form had become unelectable.

 

[ComradeDavo]

Except that it hasn't driven away its left wing, just annoyed the h--- out of it.

Saying that Blair has transformed the Labour Party (abandoning its more traditional values in the process) is not quite the same thing as saying that he has destroyed it. The Labour Party in its Michael Foot/ Tony Benn form had become unelectable.

Well, the current party under Blair only got 37% of the vote in the general election, which in 'real' democracies with proper proportional representation isn't exactly a winning number.

Personally, as a left-winger, I have been completely put off the party by Blair and his adminstration.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Time for Blair to step down and start making tons of money writing books, giving speeches, appearing at disaster sites with Bill Clinton and Bush Senior, etc.

 

[Godwynn]

I dislike him, but no where near as much as I do Bush.

 

[Atropos]

Well, the current party under Blair only got 37% of the vote in the general election, which in 'real' democracies with proper proportional representation isn't exactly a winning number.

Personally, as a left-winger, I have been completely put off the party by Blair and his adminstration.

Thing is, proportional representation has a tendancy to give disproportionate influence to small parties (since their 30 seats can break a government).

And regarding your next point: I gather you now vote for the Tories?

 

[ComradeDavo]

Thing is, proportional representation has a tendancy to give disproportionate influence to small parties (since their 30 seats can break a government).

And regarding your next point: I gather you now vote for the Tories?

No, I vote Liberal Democrat. I'd rather eat my own hand than vote Tory.

And Zulu made a thread on PR, so we can leave debate to that, suffice to say I support it.

 

[amadeus]

He's certainly helped the Conservatives.

 

[ComradeDavo]

When right-wing Americans are praising a 'Labour' leader you know something has gone very wrong...

 

[classical_hero]

When right-wing Americans are praising a 'Labour' leader you know something has gone very wrong...

I have to agree with you on that one.

 

[Samson]

My 2nd biggest problem with Tony Blair, only slightly worse than getting us involved in an offensive war is that he ended the existance of a left wing party in this counrty.

I have often wondered how things would have panned out if John Smith had lived, he would definatly have become prime minister and was somewhat left wing. Any one else reakon he was bumped off by MI5 / CIA / the illuminatay (sp?) / whoever?

 

[Rossiya]

My 2nd biggest problem with Tony Blair, only slightly worse than getting us involved in an offensive war is that he ended the existance of a left wing party in this counrty.

I have often wondered how things would have panned out if John Smith had lived, he would definatly have become prime minister and was somewhat left wing. Any one else reakon he was bumped off by MI5 / CIA / the illuminatay (sp?) / whoever?

i always support any slightly believable conspiracy theories. that one included.

 

[Abaddon]

I want a neutral option.. cos for a long time i thought he was ok-ish.

 

[Rossiya]

I want a neutral option.. cos for a long time i thought he was ok-ish.

yes for about 4 years until 2001. since then he has been dubya's little puppy.