[RD] Trans Erasure

[Gorbles]

It's not about beating the charge it's about forcing your victim to refer to you as she, it's about getting sent to a woman's prison where you have more opportunities to abuse women. If this doesn't show you the dangers of self-identification I don't know what would.

As supposed to lesbian or gay abusers, but strangely they're never mentioned, so we can safely assume the fact the person is trans is being weaponised. Tiresome, but predictable especially given the attitude from Westminster on culture war issues.

There's more specific discussion in the UK politics thread.

 

[schlaufuchs]

lmao imagine saying certain people should need to get a license to be a woman or man and feeling that is a reasonable position to hold.

Also might be a good time to note that the grc only governs birth certificates, marriage certificates, and death certificates. You do not need them to get a passport, or a driver’s license, or to get your name changed at work, or to use a restroom. And it should also be noted that many countries impose far fewer restrictions, or even no restrictions at all in getting these documents changed and have experienced no upsurge in gendered violence or anything of the like. Trans people are four times more likely to experience victimization like domestic partner violence, assault, and rape, than cis people are. Half of all trans people will be raped at some point in their lives. It is a pretty galling case of blame shifting to declare that we are the threats and cis people are the victims in this social environment.

But don’t let that get in the way of stirring up your baseless moral panic. One woman raped someone one time and that justifies relegating an entire population to the status of second-class citizen.

 

[Perfection]

It's not about beating the charge it's about forcing your victim to refer to you as she, it's about getting sent to a woman's prison where you have more opportunities to abuse women. If this doesn't show you the dangers of self-identification I don't know what would.

A rapist who is insane enough to try to pull this off would probably abuse men too. Power-trippin' male chauvinist rapists aren't going identify as a woman. This is special sauce crazy.

Moreover with such a system, you run into the much more realistic scenario of throwing transwomen who aren't yet legally recognized in situations where they can be abused.

 

[emzie]

Honestly, sometimes I feel like I'm posting from another universe in which I'm making sense but nobody else is understanding it.

Genocide has a list of recognized actions that define it. Call it what it is, because using 'softer' words or euphemisms means a lesser degree of understanding of how egregiously wrong it is, and wiggle room for denial that it either is happening, or could easily happen if the wrong people get into power and start turning their bigotry into law.

I think a big part of the issue is that if we label it "trans genocide" then we have to acknowledge how much genocide is a part of the human condition. If what's happening to trans people is called genocide, then so were programs like residential schools or the entire apparatus of Jim Crow.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

In the UK this is governed by the 2004 Gender Recognition Act, the criteria is basically where someone has had a diagnosis of gender dysphoria (validated by 2 doctors), has lived in the acquired gender for at least two years and intends to continue to live in the acquired gender until death.

Even if you accept the premise (people can't just identify as drivers they need to pass a test and get a licence) the events this week in Scotland show why safeguards are needed given the impact on other people.

So people have to pass a test and get a license to be themselves?

It's not about beating the charge it's about forcing your victim to refer to you as she, it's about getting sent to a woman's prison where you have more opportunities to abuse women. If this doesn't show you the dangers of self-identification I don't know what would.

You're still using this one single instance to do a blanket condemnation of everyone affected - including several people on this forum, one of whom is your own staff colleague. At least that's what it looks like to me.

Even Domination3000 listened to reason when I explained part of why his stance on executing women for having an abortion was so objectionable - it's very possible that he could have been advocating death for one or more CFC members. He finally got it and stopped. Surely you can be better than a 17-year-old right-wing knowitall (note that I'm not talking about a current forum member; he was permabanned years ago).

I think a big part of the issue is that if we label it "trans genocide" then we have to acknowledge how much genocide is a part of the human condition. If what's happening to trans people is called genocide, then so were programs like residential schools or the entire apparatus of Jim Crow.

As I indicated before, sugarcoating the terms will make people less likely to try to understand why it actually matters. And yes, the residential schools were a form of genocide. Cultural genocide matters as well, and of course they're still discovering graves at residential school sites. Even Pope Francis finally acknowledged that what the Catholic church did was cultural genocide.

Of course you can refer to it however you want - it's your lived experience and not mine. But as someone who has felt like slapping the smarmy bureaucrats and so-called "experts" for how they talk and behave and perceive disabled people, I know where my own line is between what's acceptable, what is moderately rude, and what is downright vile. Euphemisms aren't really helpful. They exist to make those unaffected by the issue less uncomfortable.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

As I indicated before, sugarcoating the terms will make people less likely to try to understand why it actually matters..

From this discussion it seems using the term doesn't help with understanding, but rather creates avenues for deflections. I see why the term could be applicable, but I also see it's not a perfect match.

I'm not going to offer alternatives, but there must be other, just as loaded terms which have less ambiguity.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

From this discussion it seems using the term doesn't help with understanding, but rather creates avenues for deflections. I see why the term could be applicable, but I also see it's not a perfect match.

I'm not going to offer alternatives, but there must be other, just as loaded terms which have less ambiguity.

I'm willing to use erasure

 

[Arakhor]

Moderator Action: This thread could do with a cool-down. Closed for now.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Moderator Action: Unlocked and bearing a new name. Be nice please. Genocide talk just complicates the conversation. We are using CloudStrife's and others' accepted terminology.

 

[schlaufuchs]

This is bullfeathers. I do not accept this concession. Once again here we are centering cis feelings over trans experiences because thinking about what is literally happening to us right now makes you even the slightest bit uncomfortable.

Just one more instance of the mod team here siding with a fudging nazi characterizing us as violent rapists.

 

[Zardnaar]

Or one could say you're hijacking the term and assaulting the memories if the Jews, Armenians etc who did get genocides.

Best way of keeping Nazis out of power is to don't let them win elections. Which generally means not insulting people who aren't Nazi's.

There's a morality lesson in there somewhere.

 

[Arwon]

So anyway some of the attempts at trans erasure by groups such as the United States Republican Party are pretty much genocidal in their ambitions to make it impossible for trans people to live in places they rule.

They want to achieve this eliminationist end by denying and even criminalising the provision of life saving healthcare, and by the criminalisation of trans people's public presentation of their gender.

 

[Zardnaar]

So anyway some of the attempts at trans erasure by groups such as there US Republican party are pretty much genocidal in their ambitions

Not claiming they're nice and the GoP can go fudge itself.

 

[schlaufuchs]

Another reason this is fudging stupid is that it just isn’t even trans erasure. That term already exists. It means speaking and behaving socially as though trans people do not exist, or under the assumption that every person and every experience is cis. You enact trans erasure by, for instance, characterizing abortion as “a woman’s right to choose.” There are parallel terms: like bi-erasure (people are only gay or straight) or enby-erasure (there are only trans women and trans men)

What we are experiencing is not society treating us like we don’t exist, or enacting policy that does not take us or our needs into account (like, say, making testosterone a controlled substance on the assumption it’s only used by athletes to gain a competitive edge). But rather, acknowledging our existence and making direct, targeted policy decisions with the explicit aim to exterminate us. I wonder if there’s a term for that, a government taking direct, intentional action to exterminate a people.

 

[Zardnaar]

Another reason this is fudging stupid is that it just isn’t even trans erasure. That term already exists. It means speaking and behaving socially as though trans people do not exist, or under the assumption that every person and every experience is cis. You enact trans erasure by characterizing abortion as “a woman’s right to choose.” There are parallel terms: like bi-erasure (people are only gay or straight) or enby-erasure (there are only trans women and trans men)

What we are experiencing is not society treating us like we don’t exist, or enacting policy that does not take us or our needs into account (like making testosterone a controlled substance in the assumption it’s only used by athletes to gain a competitive edge). But rather, acknowledging our existence and making direct, explicit, targeted policy actions to exterminate us. I wonder if there’s a term for that, a government taking direct, intentional action to exterminate a people.

I don't think to many are arguing it's a good thing. Just kinda blends in with the other "only in America roll your eyes" type moments. Started doing that in the 80's. Just when you think they can't go any lower someone pulls out a shovel and starts digging.

 

[Gorbles]

I don't think to many are arguing it's a good thing. Just kinda blends in with the other "only in America roll your eyes" type moments. Started doing that in the 80's. Just when you think they can't go any lower someone pulls out a shovel and starts digging.

It's not an "only in America" thing.

 

[Zardnaar]

It's not an "only in America" thing.

I know but it's on top of the police brutality, school shootings, mass shootings, Trump/Manga, the racism, abortion access etc etc etc.

All the Americanisms.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Once again here we are centering cis feelings over trans experiences because thinking about what is literally happening to us right now makes you even the slightest bit uncomfortable.

Nope.

 

[Aiken_Drumn]

So how long? How long until trans people are openly banned from existence, thrown into jail or even camps designed to hold us?

I do not think this will ever come to pass, but the threat that it might, and that some people want this must have a horrendous toll on ones mental state. I try to empathise and struggle to comprehend. I hope that the majority that are accepting continue to grow as the cantankerous political views die out.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

I do not think this will ever come to pass, but the threat that it might, and that some people want this must have a horrendous toll on ones mental state. I try to empathise and struggle to comprehend. I hope that the majority that are accepting continue to grow as the cantankerous political views die out.

What do you mean? It's already happening in various states