So neither done nor ubiquitous? Previously Cloud has connected suicide to genocide, as a result of a lack of access to appropriate healthcare. Can you drive a population to suicide enough for it to be considered a genocide? I don't think so.
[RD] Trans Erasure
- Thread starter Cloud_Strife
- Start date
So neither done nor ubiquitous? Previously Cloud has connected suicide to genocide, as a result of a lack of access to appropriate healthcare. Can you drive a population to suicide enough for it to be considered a genocide? I don't think so.
Cloud_Strife
Deity
This is what i mean.
You think it's tolerable living with untreated gender dysphoria? Do you even know what it's like?
Only trans people are oppressed and there are no other minorities. Is this your position?
So we debate my existence now too? I question your grasp on reality. I assure you I am real.
Oh I am the butt of plenty of jokes. They are typically not a hate crime though.
Cloud_Strife
Deity
You don't have a clue about what it's like to be trans and you don't seem to have any interest beyond being contrarian for the sake of making an opposing argument
I have no personal experience. I do, however, know people personally who are transitioning. You can help me joining them in raising funds for it if you like? PM me if you want the details of their Go-Fund-Me.
I don't see how these words connect with what you quoted from me. You are just stating your personal opinion of me now.
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Genocide isn't just mass murder.
Elevated rates of mental health distress and suicide is also pretty common among groups targeted by genocidal policies too. It's certainly a big consequence of settler colonial states' various non-mass-murder later day genocidal policies towards Indigenous peoples.
True, I understand it to be the deliberate killing of a specific group. I do not agree withdrawing needed medical help, which is shown to raise suicide levels, meets this description.
The withdrawal of medical support is terrible and should be fought, but calling it genocide is hyperbolic and distracting.
It's not just deliberate killing, either. Otherwise, Canadian residential schools and Australia's stolen generation wouldn't be forms of genocide, and they are.
Honestly the main reason why these anti trans policies are only on the edge of genocidal is debate about whether it applies to a group so far removed from the traditional understanding of genocide as being conducted against an ethnic or cultural group.
What they're doing is certainly fully eliminationist in nature, the intent to forcibly detransition people and deny potentially life saving medical care is designed to get rid of trans people altogether. The main argument to be had is about the nature of the target.
Honestly the main reason why these anti trans policies are only on the edge of genocidal is debate about whether it applies to a group so far removed from the traditional understanding of genocide as being conducted against an ethnic or cultural group.
What they're doing is certainly fully eliminationist in nature, the intent to forcibly detransition people and deny potentially life saving medical care is designed to get rid of trans people altogether. The main argument to be had is about the nature of the target.
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Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
United Nations Office on Genocide Prevention and the Responsibility to Protect
Genocide Prevention and the Responsibility to Protect
www.un.org
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
Killing members of the group;
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group
Broken_Erika
Play with me.
They aren't just withdrawing medical support, they're basically trying to make it illegal for trans people to be out in public.
It's worth noting since I mentioned Indigenous genocides above, that Canada, and presumably other settler colonial states who at the time were intent on destroying Indigenous peoples by slow forcible assimilationist means, specifically campaigned to prevent the explicit incision of cultural genocide in the text.
"They".
Sorry I am likely having a very ignorant moment, but is there a specific word to equate similar to "racists" that is specifically those opposed to Trans people? I guess there are lots of varying background reasons, but do we have a collective word for them? Anti-trans bigot perhaps? I am surprised there isn't a singular word for this.
Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
Indeed. The definition I posted supports your position.
That is novel to me, and I accept under these qualifiers that there are certainly people who do wish, and are acting to pursue genocide against trans people.
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Yeah, it's just an argument about definitions. Some people think it means "trying to kill a people" and some people "trying to extinguish a culture". Then there's a spectrum between those, in general.
Ajidica
High Quality Person
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As we are talking about genocide, should the mass killings of Hutus by the Rwandan Patriotic Front be considered genocide?
Following the genocide against the Tutsi by the Hutu, it is estimated forces under the control of the RPF were directly responsible for the death of 5 to 10 thousand Hutus a month between April and August 1994. This does not include the killing of at least 5,000 Hutu civilians and disarmed adults at the Kibeho refugee camp by RPF forces in 1995, an act witnessed by Australian peacekeepers.
Despite the clear evidence of mass killings to achieve a political purpose by the RPF, the scholarly consensus, even by scholars quite hostile to the RPF like Gerard Prunier and Michaela Wrong, is that while the killings constitute a war crime and crime against humanity, it does not constitute genocide.
If the killing of tens of thousands of Hutu civilians by the RPF does not constitute genocide, why should the policies and laws described in this thread, however repulsive and bigoted, constitute genocide?
Following the genocide against the Tutsi by the Hutu, it is estimated forces under the control of the RPF were directly responsible for the death of 5 to 10 thousand Hutus a month between April and August 1994. This does not include the killing of at least 5,000 Hutu civilians and disarmed adults at the Kibeho refugee camp by RPF forces in 1995, an act witnessed by Australian peacekeepers.
Despite the clear evidence of mass killings to achieve a political purpose by the RPF, the scholarly consensus, even by scholars quite hostile to the RPF like Gerard Prunier and Michaela Wrong, is that while the killings constitute a war crime and crime against humanity, it does not constitute genocide.
If the killing of tens of thousands of Hutu civilians by the RPF does not constitute genocide, why should the policies and laws described in this thread, however repulsive and bigoted, constitute genocide?
bernie14
Filter Manipulator
Because anecdotal story telling is now qualitative science
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I don't know, we're nearly 100 posts in and I've yet to see a position which supports what the TC is saying. I guess everything is just happening in the ether and I don't get it.
Cloud_Strife
Deity
You know, appart from them trying to outright ban the existence of trans people
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