Trump explained - because you all are blind

[metalhead]

This seems to be a bit confused or twisted. I have never came across anything which would suggest Trump runned on racist or PC platforms but quite the opposite. How is bringing jobs back or giving more power back to the common American a safe space policy?

He specifically promised that we would all be saying "Merry Christmas" again, in order to provide Christians a safe space where they don't have to hear non-religious holiday greetings. He promised to keep all the Muslims away from the United States so that Christians wouldn't have to fear the presence of non-Christians in their country.

I don't think you really understand. White Christian identity politics is still identity politics. Promising to eliminate those pesky things the majority has to put up with to accommodate the minority is still promising a safe space. Getting upset by "Happy Holidays," and trying to use platforms like Fox News to enforce Christian-specific holiday greetings and imagery is a form of Political Correctness.

You might not support those things, but Trump explicitly did. So it's just flat out wrong to try to say that Trump somehow was a victory against PC and identity politics. It wasn't. It was merely a victory for the PC and identity politics that you're aligned with.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

He specifically promised that we would all be saying "Merry Christmas" again, in order to provide Christians a safe space where they don't have to hear non-religious holiday greetings. He promised to keep all the Muslims away from the United States so that Christians wouldn't have to fear the presence of non-Christians in their country.

To clarify: "Merry Christmas" isnt a PC term. Happy holidays isnt necessarily PC term either unless its specificaly used to avoid the Christian context which in my eyes is nonsense and an escape from reality through some illusory window of ideology of political correctness.
I dont think Trump promised to keep muslims away. That just sounds like another abreviated nonsense. But you are welcome to prove me wrong.

I don't think you really understand. White Christian identity politics is still identity politics. Promising to eliminate those pesky things the majority has to put up with to accommodate the minority is still promising a safe space. Getting upset by "Happy Holidays," and trying to use platforms like Fox News to enforce Christian-specific holiday greetings and imagery is a form of Political Correctness.

By definition "white Christian" is an oxymoron. No one can be really be a genuine Christian and racist. What pesky things are you talking about? Christian tradition and identity arent pesky things but a cornerstones of ones selfidentification (if you are Christian).
There is nothing wrong in using the proper terms for hanuka, ramadan or christmas. Why would be? What is necessity or justification for avoiding these terms?

You might not support those things, but Trump explicitly did. So it's just flat out wrong to try to say that Trump somehow was a victory against PC and identity politics. It wasn't. It was merely a victory for the PC and identity politics that you're aligned with.

Looks like i am missing something from the American RL. Is anyone forcing you to celebrate Christmas or any of the other holidays or are you being forced in some other way when it comes to religious matters? Again what would be the reason for not using the proper name for each holiday? That doesnt sound to me much like a PC but rather a simple common sense.

 

[metalhead]

To clarify: "Merry Christmas" isnt a PC term. Happy holidays isnt necessarily PC term either unless its specificaly used to avoid the Christian context which in my eyes is nonsense and an escape from reality through some illusory window of ideology of political correctness.

It is to some Christians. They feel offended if you don't wish them "Merry Christmas," and every year people get upset and boycott Starbucks when they feel their Christmas cup contains insufficient imagery and symbolism of the Christian holiday. They very much view "Merry Christmas" as the PC greeting which all Americans should be using.

I dont think Trump promised to keep muslims away. That just sounds like another abreviated nonsense. But you are welcome to prove me wrong.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

It is to some Christians. They feel offended if you don't wish them "Merry Christmas," and every year people get upset and boycott Starbucks when they feel their Christmas cup contains insufficient imagery and symbolism of the Christian holiday. They very much view "Merry Christmas" as the PC greeting which all Americans should be using.

Sounds to me more like a reaction to PC then promotion of PC but I dont know. Perhaps insecurity and fear of loss of their own traditions?

But this isnt so much as a stopping muslims for being muslims but for stopping the potential significant threath that rises from that segment of migration. I think its largely justified approach based on the reality and facts and not on pandering to some phobia.

 

[metalhead]

"I don't think Trump promised to keep Muslims away"
*posts press release of Trump promising to keep Muslims away*
"Oh, that's no big deal he wanted to keep Muslims away, in fact that's a good idea."

You've got to be effing kidding me with this. How exactly is this not stopping Muslims for being Muslims when he says he's stopping all Muslims because they are Muslim? How on Earth do you live with yourself when you have to look at black and call it white in order to keep defending this treasonous idiot? Good grief!

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

"I don't think Trump promised to keep Muslims away"
*posts press release of Trump promising to keep Muslims away*
"Oh, that's no big deal he wanted to keep Muslims away, in fact that's a good idea."

You've got to be effing kidding me with this. How exactly is this not stopping Muslims for being Muslims when he says he's stopping all Muslims because they are Muslim? How on Earth do you live with yourself when you have to look at black and call it white in order to keep defending this treasonous idiot? Good grief!

Its really simple. Trump is not saying that all muslims are jihadist but that jihad as a form of violence against non-muslims is specific to muslims and to properly identify and eliminate this threat temporary limited migration ban has to be implemented. It is lot in wording which in the poster you posted is not precise and bit unfortunate.

There is nothing really extraordinary about this. The irrational thing would be the contrary: to be involved in war in Syria and to indiscriminately accept refugees from there.

So that is how I live with myself: common sense and looking at reality as it is....

 

[metalhead]

"Total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States" is unequivocally targeting all people of Muslim faith. Even U.S. citizens travelling abroad. How you can claim that excluding U.S. citizens from entering the United States based on their religion is "nothing extraordinary" is so beyond the pale.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

"Total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States" is unequivocally targeting all people of Muslim faith. Even U.S. citizens travelling abroad. How you can claim that excluding U.S. citizens from entering the United States based on their religion is "nothing extraordinary" is so beyond the pale.

Honestly I think it just a bombastic statement. Like you point out its practicaly impossible to implement in the form it was first spitted out. But the idea behind it isnt to discriminate against muslims but to effectively adress and solve pressing issue. Thats clear enough from Trumps action since he never tried for the "total and complete shut down".

 

[metalhead]

Using absurd, incendiary hyperbole can't possibly be interpreted as a reasonable attempt to solve a problem. Nothing about that statement presents as an attempt to solve a problem. That's the whole point - it's sending a message that "I'm on the side of all you people out there who are afraid of Muslims and don't want them in your country."

It's further worth noting that Trump's actual first "attempt to solve a problem" was so poorly thought out that it had to be blocked and then rescinded. So to posit that there was some broad strategy at play here just doesn't pass the smell test, on any level. We already have quite robust refugee vetting, and DHS was always operating under a rubric where if they can't verify a refugee, that refugee does not gain entry to the United States. Period.

This was nothing more than naked pandering to people looking for a safe space where no Muslims are allowed.

 

[Sommerswerd]

TYT was the absolute most hilarious meltdown. On election night they all went from sheer jubilation and excitement to looking like they were all going to commit group suicide with the cameras still rolling. It was truly glorious.

Idk... The Karl Rove/Fox News meltdown when Obama won in 2012 was pretty classic. I'll have to go watch the TYT thing to see if it tops.

 

[metalhead]

I still don't understand why TYT was having a meltdown in the first place. Cenk was one of the chief anti-Clintonites on the left. He should have been popping the champagne after his months of hard work paid off.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

This was nothing more than naked pandering to people looking for a safe space where no Muslims are allowed.

Well possibly (pandering) but there is nothing "safe space" about wanting to live in safe country and home. You got that twisted.

 

[El_Machinae]

not on pandering to some phobia.

Of course it's pandering to a phobia. Trump is the guy who thought (for over a decade) that he say "thousands" of New Jersey muslims celebrating on 9/11.

That level of misunderstanding doesn't just sit in a vacuum. One has intentionally hold misunderstandings in order to hold such views. And why do you think he included that in his campaign speeches? He was pandering to people who held a similar phobia.

 

[metalhead]

Well possibly (pandering) but there is nothing "safe space" about wanting to live in safe country and home. You got that twisted.

It was never about security. At least, not about security from terrorism. It was always about security from people of Muslim faith.

Wanting to be safe from having to live in the same country as people of other religions is absolutely wanting a "safe space," where your beliefs are safe from being challenged. His statement is very transparently aimed at that.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

Of course it's pandering to a phobia. Trump is the guy who thought (for over a decade) that he say "thousands" of New Jersey muslims celebrating on 9/11.

That level of misunderstanding doesn't just sit in a vacuum. One has intentionally hold misunderstandings in order to hold such views. And why do you think he included that in his campaign speeches? He was pandering to people who held a similar phobia.

I am careful to accept anything without a link and seeing it in context but I dont really care that much about Trump before the election but how he acts as a president. And taking into account the resistance at home and abroad he isnt doing bad at all.

What is surprising to me: why would even US citizens - participants of great democracy and in multicultural society - be a subjects to such a phobias. And Trump has adressed that...

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

It was never about security. At least, not about security from terrorism. It was always about security from people of Muslim faith.

Wanting to be safe from having to live in the same country as people of other religions is absolutely wanting a "safe space," where your beliefs are safe from being challenged. His statement is very transparently aimed at that.

That would be completely unamerican and absurd and its next to impossible for me to share that point of view. If you can support that by some study or other means do so but it seems absolutely out of touch that citizens in the country of migrants from virtually every corner of the globe are afraid of multiculturalism. Its like saying Christians are afraid of Jesus...

 

[Lexicus]

It was always about security from people of Muslim faith.

I'll do you one further and say it was about security from brown people.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Trump had one big insight: that pro wrestling and national politics were the same TV show, just with different dress codes. Not similar shows, but the same, like the Flintstones and the Jetsons. He proved this. He sits in the oval office every day as living belching proof. The news is fake because the show is fake, WaPo and NYT are just fanzines. No one in Washington wants to accept this fact; they want to go on thinking they are all serious people with serious ideas.

Back in October of 2015, in Post #2874 of our very own "Clown Car Thread" I said:

This. I have felt this way about Trump since he made the "Mexican rapists" comment and went up in the polls. Politics is WWE wrestling and Trump is Million Dollar Man Ted DiBiase.

And in Post #3079 I said

It might be simpler in many cases... Like when we (some of us anyway) were kids and we watched Pro-Wrestling. We "knew" it was fake, but it was so darned entertaining that we just suspended our disbelief, pick our favs, pick our "sides" and sort-of pretened to "believe" so we could enjoy the show. I think something similar is happening with cable news, particularly political news...

Just smugly reminiscing about how "right" I was way back then about what was going on.

 

[caketastydelish]

The fact that you are using Malcolm X quotes to prop up Trump is frankly disgusting considering that if Malcolm X were alive today he would probably be advocating violent resistance against this farce of an administration and its insane cruelty. Keep his words out of your mouth and off your keyboard.

U mad bro? Triggered?

Moderator Action: This post treads very close to trolling, as it seems designed purely to elicit an negative reaction. I advise toning that down in future. ~ Arakhor
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Sommerswerd]

The fact that you are using Malcolm X quotes to prop up Trump is frankly disgusting considering that if Malcolm X were alive today he would probably be advocating violent resistance against this farce of an administration and its insane cruelty. Keep his words out of your mouth and off your keyboard.

ctd is just not a Malcolm X fan, that's all there is to it. I have learned as much over the years.