Trump Indicted!

[Kaitzilla]

If Trump can't get a bond after this huge mercy with all his money and properties, he must be a huge fraud.

$291 million off is a tremendous financial swing.

 

[EnglishEdward]

The whole purpose of the punitive damages is to bankrupt him.

Insisting on an enormous sum that he can not pay may sound attractive,
but on further thinking about it they may have concluded that if he can not pay it,
it would be difficult to convict him for contempt in not doing the impossible.

So by reducing it to something they think he can pay, they may well
think that they can more easily convict him for contempt or obstruction.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Contempt or obstruction aren't in the mix.

It's a rule that if you want to appeal a ruling you have to put up the judgment against you. If he didn't want to appeal, he could just pay the fine. It's because he wants to appeal the ruling that he's required to spot the cash.

 

[EvaDK]

Trump's business are more then $1bn in debt (that we know of) and some of his properties may already be held as collateral for those loans. You can use a property as collateral for different loans that combined are worth more than the value of the property, but you usually pay a hefty premium for that second loan representing a higher risk, because the first creditor will be first in line to cash in the full amount of their loan.

 

[EnglishEdward]

If he didn't want to appeal, he could just pay the fine.

With what ?

What assets he has may not be readily realisable.
.
And he may even have zero net assets.

 

[Birdjaguar]

The new lower bond requirement does not lower the fine if his appeal fails.

 

[Gori the Grey]

With what ?

He may have to sell some of his properties.

If it's true that he has zero or negative net worth, even with those properties considered, now creditors will start lining up to get the max they each can out of those sales, with the state being the first in line.

There are some who think this will have the effect of exposing that his supposed wealth is a house of cards.

The other part of the story is his social media company going public. Now, I don't know how these things work, but if it's (on paper) worth $3b, and he owns 58%, can he, the instant it goes public pull $1.74b out of it, other investors be damned? He will pull as much as he can out of it, other investors be damned. I just don't know the logistics of such trades and how much it can actually realize him. Are there limits, legal or practical, on the percentage of a company one can sell in one day?

 

[EnglishEdward]

If it was in the UK, I'd say that nobody will buy without a clear title that the property is unencumbered by a mortgage etc.

All that may take many weeks/months.

 

[Gori the Grey]

So, if it weren't about appealing, and he just wanted to pay (and wasn't going to try to obstruct and delay that in every way possible), then the receiver could start selling properties. That would take time--yes, you're right--and the court would probably give the receiver reasonable amounts of time to conduct those transactions, as long as it was clear they were moving ahead with an intention of generating the funds to pay the fine. His businesses are under a receiver now, and presumably that receiver (or another if a specialist is needed) could be charged with liquidating properties sufficient to generate the sum needed for the fine.

 

[EvaDK]

The Chinese housing developer giant Evergrande was recently ordered to liquidate by a Hong Kong court. The liquidators found out that the company was $250-300bn in debt and they also discovered fraudulent activities worth at least $70bn. It's likely to spill over into China's financial sector and knock over banks and investments funds, unless the regime in Beijing bails them out.

So yeah. The Trump Organisation may be worth a lot - on paper. But what assets underwrite that value?

 

[Sommerswerd]

The Judge has ruled that whatever transactions he engages in to raise the bond have to be overseen by the Court appointed anti-fraud monitor.

Judge Engoron Throws Wrinkle in Donald Trump's Bond Problem​

Donald Trump will need an independent monitor's approval for the $557 bond he has to file in court on Monday, a lawyer has said.

Trump's need to get a sign-off from Barbara Jones, who was appointed as "enhanced" monitor last Thursday. Those extra powers include monitoring any surety he puts up for bonds and monitoring any financial guarantees he makes to obtain those bonds. It adds an added complication to the president's attempts to raise the bond.

On February 16, Judge Arthur Engoron ordered that Trump had to pay $454 million in penalties and interest for fraudulently inflating the value of his assets to obtain bank loans. Trump's lawyers wrote in a court filing on Thursday that, with a 20 percent premium from the bond company, Trump will be seeking a bond of $577 million.

"Judge Engoron has ordered the independent monitor to be involved in Trump's efforts to secure the bond, which isn't making it any easier," Neama Rahmani, a former federal prosecutor, told Rahmani, now president of the West Coast Trial Lawyers law firm, said that many bond companies are reluctant to give the money to Trump as he may soon be president.

"Bond companies are hesitant because if Trump wins in November, they may have to enforce the bond against a sitting president," he said.

Engoron appointed Barbara Jones to monitor the Trump Organization in November, 2022. He then announced enhanced powers for her on Thursday while announcing that she would stay on as monitor for at least another three years.

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-tru...ew-york-fraud-case-bond-barbara-jones-1883161

 

[Gori the Grey]

Donald Trump will need an independent monitor's approval for the $557 bond he has to file in court on Monday, a lawyer has said.

That's great except that it's now down to $175m.

(But it really is a good thing b/c you know he's shaking every tree to try to get this money)

 

[Sommerswerd]

That's great except that it's now down to $175m.

(But it really is a good thing b/c you know he's shaking every tree to try to get this money)

Its kind of a bummer that they reduced his bond. It just reinforces my cynicism that ultimately Trump is just going to get away with everything.

Also kind of a bummer that they haven't started seizing his properties yet. They should have had the paperwork already filled out and ready to file at 9AM this morning.

 

[Kaitzilla]

A few days after Easter then.

We shall see!

 

[amadeus]

I just don't know the logistics of such trades and how much it can actually realize him. Are there limits, legal or practical, on the percentage of a company one can sell in one day?

If he has access to information not available to the public, selling off a large stake could run afoul of SEC regulations on insider trading. The way executives get around this legally is to set up a trading plan well in advance.

 

[EnglishEdward]

Which is why Donald Trump might be inclined to let the court appointed receivers do that, and then if elected
POTUS and appointing suitable SCOTUS, he'd sue the receivers for e.g. selling his assets below value.

 

[amadeus]

If that’s a response to my post, I’m not singling out Donald Trump—a trading plan for executives to avoid violating SEC rules is commonplace.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Which is why Donald Trump might be inclined to let the court appointed receivers do that, and then if elected
POTUS and appointing suitable SCOTUS, he'd sue the receivers for e.g. selling his assets below value.

On this count I don't think his being POTUS would help him.

Should any of his properties be sold, he will LOUDLY complain that it was at below their value (I mean, ignoring the fact that what things sell for is their value). But yes, he'll find some way that the sale wasn't handled to his satisfaction, and sue over that. Don't know how far it will get him, but he just throws things on the wall to see what sticks.

 

[Sommerswerd]

If he has access to information not available to the public, selling off a large stake could run afoul of SEC regulations on insider trading. The way executives get around this legally is to set up a trading plan well in advance.

Its going to be pretty hilarious to watch Trump pump and dump his Truth Social stocks in order to pay his fines. When he dumps that much stock its going to tank the stock and create a freefall cascade in the price... especially since IIRC trading platforms allow trades to be conducted automatically by bots in response to market trends. When the bots see the stock fall, they are going to start selling off the stock immediately and its going to crash.

Thinking about it... I don't know if the Court appointed monitor is going to let him do something like that. Also, as you say, the SEC is certainly going to take a dim view of him trying that, especially since they have to be fully aware that he might try something like that and be ready to stop/stall/obstruct him from doing so.

In this instance, everyone can see the pump and dump coming from a mile away, so it will be interesting to see if he is still able to pull it off.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Its going to be pretty hilarious to watch Trump pump and dump his Truth Social stocks in order to pay his fines. When he dumps that much stock its going to tank the stock and create a freefall cascade in the price

If he manages it, he'll have the money he needs, but at the price of 1) his company being worthless (which he won't like having to acknowledge), and 2) everybody knowing that he pulled out of his own company (which he won't like having to acknowledge).