ParkCungHee
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Civilization 7 has been announced. For more info please check the forum here .
Turkey's Kurds Declare Democratic Autonomy
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r16
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on the first page a Tuğluk is mentioned and she is a she . See the number ı use for the tribes in our freer part is 125 and they don't have many posts to share . So what the young American mentioned above will explain as a liberation movement for woman rights is so easy . They have 2 co-presidents for everything , a guy and a female . And of course what the courts define as illegal , there is also the undercover organization that runs civilian life on orders from the armed wing , which means 40 posts keep 120 tribes content , each with a hand on the pie .
r16
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ahh sorry , that was the cost of the mirrors and beads the Dutch paid for the island back in the day . As far as Turkish history says .
ParkCungHee
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Snorrius
Librivorator
I do not think we need another pseudosovereign state in this already fractioned world.
ParkCungHee
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Did you ever consider what they need?
Snorrius
Librivorator
There is already Iraqi Kurdistan.
Incoherent anti-American rant aside, arguing that the Kurdish issue is some American created monstrosity is a bit much. It goes way back before American influence in the region. And what's with the whole "young American" thing, Turkey is younger than America. And wasn't the situation in Turkey's southeast actually worse before the Iraq War? I'm not arguing a causation at all but just bringing that up.
I would argue that Turkey does the same noble savage thing with Palestinians. And no matter what political party is in charge people always are quick to claim the Americans put them in power nonsense.
I would argue that Turkey does the same noble savage thing with Palestinians. And no matter what political party is in charge people always are quick to claim the Americans put them in power nonsense.
Mumble, mumble, Timor-Leste, mumble, mumble, West Papua, mumble, Aceh Darussalam, mumble.
Eh, complex. Aceh has never wanted to separate from Indonesia proper. The '53 Revolt was a reaction against centralisation of Aceh into the larger political (and multi-ethnic) North Sumatera. The Second Revolt was over much the same thing and ended much the same as the first revolt - when the Republic backed down. The Third Revolt the same again but lasted longer because (1) the New Order were willing to milk it for political capital, (2) that the post-Reformatsi government(s) lacked the political will to fight or compromise and (3) that GAM itself (heavily factionalised) couldn't decide what exactly it wanted. But at no stage was independence seriously considered.
Interestingly, Timor-Leste and West Papua are examples of when pseudo-sovereign states don't work. Certainly, until the New Order fell in Timor-Leste and as recently 2009 in West Papua both places were military provinces and were not technically speaking answerable to the DPR but to the President via the Chief of the Armed Forces. It was only after Timor-Leste was bought under the control of the DPR that it became possible to even consider a vote for self-determination (Of course let's not forget that something like a quarter of the population fled over the border before the vote had even been held woooo. Those were mostly Indonesians who fled either ahead of the vote not wanting to be caught on the wrong side of the border or were driven out through organised violence. It needs to be remembered that the TNI counter-stroke was weighed against a hundred-thousand Indonesians fleeing into West Timor).
West-Papua is a different business entirely in large part because somewhat more than half of the population is not 'Papuan' and only about half of that supports Independence. Frankly West Papua is better understood as an intra-tribal conflict writ large across the province with about half the doods rallying around the Republic for patronage and the other half sulking and pushing for independence because they've been locked out. Broadly speaking, the coast supports the Republic and the highlands support independence. The cities are usually notionally pro-independence on economic grounds but that kind of general dissatisfaction with Java/Muslims/Jakarta/Politicians is endemic across the Archipelago. Any attempt to go for independance 4srs is going to be met by (Christian) Ambonese, (Christian) Torajan and (Muslim and Christian) Javanese militias even before the TNI gets involved. And frankly, they'd win, hands down: better organised, better weapons and with a strong sense of belonging to both Papua (most have been there for a generation, in the Ambonese case 2-3 generations as Dutch civil servants and soldiers mostly) and Indonesia.
Whatever the case, I support great autonomy for West Papua and I oppose the occupation of East-Timor, if not neccesarily the invasion. (I fail to see how crushing FRETLIN was a bad thing considering the nasty stuff it was involved in). And I still don't get the logic behind the Republics' consistently ******ed position with regards to Aceh...
Interestingly, Timor-Leste and West Papua are examples of when pseudo-sovereign states don't work. Certainly, until the New Order fell in Timor-Leste and as recently 2009 in West Papua both places were military provinces and were not technically speaking answerable to the DPR but to the President via the Chief of the Armed Forces. It was only after Timor-Leste was bought under the control of the DPR that it became possible to even consider a vote for self-determination (Of course let's not forget that something like a quarter of the population fled over the border before the vote had even been held woooo. Those were mostly Indonesians who fled either ahead of the vote not wanting to be caught on the wrong side of the border or were driven out through organised violence. It needs to be remembered that the TNI counter-stroke was weighed against a hundred-thousand Indonesians fleeing into West Timor).
West-Papua is a different business entirely in large part because somewhat more than half of the population is not 'Papuan' and only about half of that supports Independence. Frankly West Papua is better understood as an intra-tribal conflict writ large across the province with about half the doods rallying around the Republic for patronage and the other half sulking and pushing for independence because they've been locked out. Broadly speaking, the coast supports the Republic and the highlands support independence. The cities are usually notionally pro-independence on economic grounds but that kind of general dissatisfaction with Java/Muslims/Jakarta/Politicians is endemic across the Archipelago. Any attempt to go for independance 4srs is going to be met by (Christian) Ambonese, (Christian) Torajan and (Muslim and Christian) Javanese militias even before the TNI gets involved. And frankly, they'd win, hands down: better organised, better weapons and with a strong sense of belonging to both Papua (most have been there for a generation, in the Ambonese case 2-3 generations as Dutch civil servants and soldiers mostly) and Indonesia.
Whatever the case, I support great autonomy for West Papua and I oppose the occupation of East-Timor, if not neccesarily the invasion. (I fail to see how crushing FRETLIN was a bad thing considering the nasty stuff it was involved in). And I still don't get the logic behind the Republics' consistently ******ed position with regards to Aceh...
r16
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the young American will be familiar with USN aviator's saying that "Better lucky then good any day." Imagine then how this would have looked like had ı downloaded that file on Wednesday last week . On Friday ı would surely comment on the No 105 Sq RAF attack on Oslo . How they found clear skies with Fw-190s in the air instead of the expected 2000 feet ceiling . Or how hard the RAF looked into Luftwaffe archives post-war to find those combat reports that alleged Mk IVs had downed a German fighter . Praise to God , would have been extremely distasteful .
and this wild strayal from topic is justified from my perspective only because in its proper thread it might sound like insulting . Condolonces on an individual basis as loss of somebody close to you can be understood only if you lose somebody close to you . Nothing against the Norwegian state either , "small but [justifiably] proud" as their Prime Minister put it . There are times when being a peacenik calls for courage equivalent to hardiest war-maker . The responses were well thought out as they put "coloured" response teams to the limelight. They were taking stock while international TV channels were busy spewing all those Pakistani immigrants , El Kaide threats , Muammer Kaddafi who would never shy from hitting the weak (even or especially when Norwegians were slated to end their participation soon) and threadwise it was the first thing that was officially denied that there was any connection to anything remotely Kurdish . Young Americans will see the measures that saw cabinet ministers in seperate nuclear bunkers -as the story goes in Turkey - as something to examine in decapitation strikes . Nothing to scoff at , as ı saw on TV that a MP survived the attack on the island .
all in all , a connection we fans of Dexter dislike immensely , but maybe there were some that feared Dexterization enough that this blonde "avenger" learned many of the young can manage to run and hide while the unfortunate had no course but to try to plead for their lifes . As such lone guns can not simply wipe out high numbers ... He even had to unmask to collect the kids around and calling out to those in the distance as he was shooting the nearby . If there is any contention with regards to the high number of casualties , it will inevitably explained by the dislocation of the goverment center by the blast . 40 minutes is such a long time . Not that ı am accusing or pointing fingers . One hears the temptation is to fill the guy/guys with enough lead that resulting biometal compound can be effectively used as nuclear shielding , but it tends to pay dividends to catch people alive .
ı have other bones of contention as ı can be reliably expected to .
nor ı am a conduit one can make deals through It angers people who count that ı am expected to "say what ı want" . ı don't want anything . ı never wanted anything. Pressuring me by any means will only lead to a proper discussion of my idiocy . Even if ı was a 100% liar , instead of a concerned idiot the sole reason for my vulgar existence would be the sentence that read " r16 told 'em so." , to be uttered after the things go pear shaped . A huge insult considering my simpleness .
can you imagine me in any setting responding positively , say for the purposes of the discussion, when the seperatist MPs hint their timing was off , with their declaration of autonomy on the day 13 soldiers were killed and last night another 3 were lost , in addition to the liutenant (who was previously wounded in the patrol that killed two who were planting a roadside bomb) , apparently because nobody went to them and paid a sack of gold each for their reasonability , and all these being the essence of my perception ? Ah yes by all means the police can field all the howitzers (and submarines , too ) it needs and this helps the arrest of 78 people in Istanbul by doing ? As people are busy talking of the death squads , disappearences and mischief on the web to start an ethnic conflagration in the West of the country . Talk about pyschological impact , one of the three was about to retire in 15 days and he had arrived a week ago or so , the other two were on the last day of their tours . And democratic TV channels are chock a block with movies that show it is not treason to rebel against fascist or military dictatorships . Though ı appreciated the last night's one on Portugal '74 ; we don't read much on that . Wonder what will their masters say .
at best ı would turn out to be a wound up toy railing to the best of his limited ability against a country between the Pasific and the Atlantic , most probably Canada or Mexico . Yeah , since ı avoid alcoholic spirits , ı will buy a two and a half liter bottle of coke and toast the default , if it ever happens .
that will be our exact contribution to the American economy in the present context .
and this wild strayal from topic is justified from my perspective only because in its proper thread it might sound like insulting . Condolonces on an individual basis as loss of somebody close to you can be understood only if you lose somebody close to you . Nothing against the Norwegian state either , "small but [justifiably] proud" as their Prime Minister put it . There are times when being a peacenik calls for courage equivalent to hardiest war-maker . The responses were well thought out as they put "coloured" response teams to the limelight. They were taking stock while international TV channels were busy spewing all those Pakistani immigrants , El Kaide threats , Muammer Kaddafi who would never shy from hitting the weak (even or especially when Norwegians were slated to end their participation soon) and threadwise it was the first thing that was officially denied that there was any connection to anything remotely Kurdish . Young Americans will see the measures that saw cabinet ministers in seperate nuclear bunkers -as the story goes in Turkey - as something to examine in decapitation strikes . Nothing to scoff at , as ı saw on TV that a MP survived the attack on the island .
all in all , a connection we fans of Dexter dislike immensely , but maybe there were some that feared Dexterization enough that this blonde "avenger" learned many of the young can manage to run and hide while the unfortunate had no course but to try to plead for their lifes . As such lone guns can not simply wipe out high numbers ... He even had to unmask to collect the kids around and calling out to those in the distance as he was shooting the nearby . If there is any contention with regards to the high number of casualties , it will inevitably explained by the dislocation of the goverment center by the blast . 40 minutes is such a long time . Not that ı am accusing or pointing fingers . One hears the temptation is to fill the guy/guys with enough lead that resulting biometal compound can be effectively used as nuclear shielding , but it tends to pay dividends to catch people alive .
ı have other bones of contention as ı can be reliably expected to .
Spoiler :
nor ı am a conduit one can make deals through It angers people who count that ı am expected to "say what ı want" . ı don't want anything . ı never wanted anything. Pressuring me by any means will only lead to a proper discussion of my idiocy . Even if ı was a 100% liar , instead of a concerned idiot the sole reason for my vulgar existence would be the sentence that read " r16 told 'em so." , to be uttered after the things go pear shaped . A huge insult considering my simpleness .
can you imagine me in any setting responding positively , say for the purposes of the discussion, when the seperatist MPs hint their timing was off , with their declaration of autonomy on the day 13 soldiers were killed and last night another 3 were lost , in addition to the liutenant (who was previously wounded in the patrol that killed two who were planting a roadside bomb) , apparently because nobody went to them and paid a sack of gold each for their reasonability , and all these being the essence of my perception ? Ah yes by all means the police can field all the howitzers (and submarines , too ) it needs and this helps the arrest of 78 people in Istanbul by doing ? As people are busy talking of the death squads , disappearences and mischief on the web to start an ethnic conflagration in the West of the country . Talk about pyschological impact , one of the three was about to retire in 15 days and he had arrived a week ago or so , the other two were on the last day of their tours . And democratic TV channels are chock a block with movies that show it is not treason to rebel against fascist or military dictatorships . Though ı appreciated the last night's one on Portugal '74 ; we don't read much on that . Wonder what will their masters say .
at best ı would turn out to be a wound up toy railing to the best of his limited ability against a country between the Pasific and the Atlantic , most probably Canada or Mexico . Yeah , since ı avoid alcoholic spirits , ı will buy a two and a half liter bottle of coke and toast the default , if it ever happens .
that will be our exact contribution to the American economy in the present context .
r16
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and immensely proud of my incoherence , too , especially when it is indeed number one American propaganda that it is them who decide who get what here , or everywhere in the world . Hope you manage to steer clear of those Americans we know , seemingly better than you .
america is not even 250 yet .
america is not even 250 yet .
I can't say I understand everything in your above post, the problem is you often reference things that other people are either unfamiliar with or just not exactly sure what it is that you are referencing. I don't know if you think I'm being insensitive to those who died in the latest terrorist attack in Diyarbakir. I'm not, I think it's really tragic what happened and I don't mean to make light of it.
You seem to think that America is some omnipotent power that makes decisions for the rest of the world which I think is a huge exaggeration.
About America's age, well this is kind of a nitpick on my part since the Turkish Republic is much younger than America. Of course that's a bit of an odd statement because of course the Ottoman Empire existed before that. Then again white American society existed before independence and wasn't created from scratch but was an offshoot of older cultures so that's generally what I say to counter people who act like America is some unsophisticated culture that has no past.
You seem to think that America is some omnipotent power that makes decisions for the rest of the world which I think is a huge exaggeration.
About America's age, well this is kind of a nitpick on my part since the Turkish Republic is much younger than America. Of course that's a bit of an odd statement because of course the Ottoman Empire existed before that. Then again white American society existed before independence and wasn't created from scratch but was an offshoot of older cultures so that's generally what I say to counter people who act like America is some unsophisticated culture that has no past.
r16
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there has never been a suggestion of insensitivity .
what ı think about the omnipotency of America is quite unprintable , though my track record could well imply that we don't give much hoot to it . In case ı am halfway sensible . If not it doesn't matter anyhow .
yet America is not even 250 .
what ı think about the omnipotency of America is quite unprintable , though my track record could well imply that we don't give much hoot to it . In case ı am halfway sensible . If not it doesn't matter anyhow .
yet America is not even 250 .
Tani Coyote
Son of Huehuecoyotl
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The need for nationalism would be erased if we just learned to respect our fellow man and treat them as equals regardless of whatever factors constitute their identity. If every identity was respected, they all wouldn't need state institutions or nation-states.
We could just be humans. Not Christian, not Hindu, not African, European, America, not gay or bisexual, not male or female. Just human beings.
We could just be humans. Not Christian, not Hindu, not African, European, America, not gay or bisexual, not male or female. Just human beings.
Floating Pants
Drunk on Life
Like it or not, there will always be pride. Until we've got a universal race and universal religion, one will hold themselves higher than the others. Ever since recorded history people have declared their race and religion higher than others. How will we solve that? Ever read the book Anthem? No... I don't think that's the answer.
I say, when autonomy is requested, give them it. Who is it hurting? Who says a unified group of countries is worse than a single, rebellious country?
But, I agree, the pride is taken to far in many situations. Respect is certainly what we need, but no more. And it's very hard to maintain a minimal level of respect without it turning into complete equalization.
r16
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well , it is one thing oppressing people for pride , it is yet another to see an ally and practically entire Europe to carve some puppet out of the puppet they already ruled , in practical terms . There are bound to be times when the waste cuts to the bone .
innonimatu
the resident Cassandra
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What nasty stuff? Oh, yes, they carried out a coup and tried to take power by force... kind what Indonesia did much more effectively (killing many more people) with its invasion. How on earth can you justify the invasion as some kind of lesser evil? FRETLIN, despite the coup (and why it happened, that's a very interesting question, the outside parties wishing it were so many) didn't even had the strength to enforce the typical supposedly left-wing third-world dictatorship of the 1970s on the country. No, the real cause of the invasion was american fear that either China or the USSR would eventually support it later and build some base there.
As for the recent referendum , the vote itself was carried out exactly as had been agreed. Those indonesians who left probably had good reasons to know what the outcome would be, and that they would be unwelcome in an independent East Timor. It wasn't as if the occupation was without "incidents".
