Upload save
[MOD] v41 SVN and GithubDesktop Bugs and Crashes Single player
- Thread starter JosEPh_II
- Start date
Now you will be able to compare impact of civics to other impacts on
commerces/yields when it comes to yield and commerce modifiers (+x%).It now shows sum of all modifiers and changes in single category (from buildings, from civics, and so on).
Also from what it looks like:
from land is boosted by yield modifiers.All other sources are unchanged by yield modifiers now.
Last edited:
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
What about specialists? I'm really leaning towards not liking this but I will refrain from immediate judgement. I remember it being brought up in passing and don't remember much about the conversation. I suppose it is the kind of thing that might 'help for now' but it just demolishes the entire corporation mechanism IIRC - rather promising it's NOT going to profit no matter what. There might need to be a special case made there for the income drawn in from corporate dues applying as well and it could fix it.
@Toffer90 probably knows better, but corporations still will work:
Land yields are boosted by corporations, as those are buildings with yield modifiers.
ingvarr777
Chieftain
I feel like after last couple of updates the game has got a huge rebalance and buildings don't matter that much for production and food anymore. Money and science from buildings are the same or even bigger than before. Not sure I like this. AI Civs got a huge gain towards technology research (in my playthrough).
Buildings like Laser Drilling and Stone Tools Workshop, that are ages apart, both give +5 hammers to production? What is the logic in that?
Buildings like Laser Drilling and Stone Tools Workshop, that are ages apart, both give +5 hammers to production? What is the logic in that?
Last edited:
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Try not to compare them directly - STW is a special core strategy key building for that era and its value is nothing like that when applied to researching technologies from a modern perspective.
There's a lot to rebalance.
Sure they 'work' exactly as intended - except that the only way they were ever going to give a gold profit was if their +5 or whatever gold per city they are spread in applies to the % mods for the capital city that amount is given to. Most players never understood the corporation mechanism as it was designed in BtS tbh and just ignored it instead of mastering it. The ultimate key was to get at least 100% income modifier in the financial specialist capital city to counter all the dues losses it inflicts on the cities it is spread to. That was doable with the national and world wonders you could build in a city you designate as your financial capital. If that amount is no longer applying to your income/city spread in your financial capital center, yes corporations will still give LOTS of production/food/culture and sometimes other benefits, but will NEVER profit and will instead drive you bankrupt the more you have access to the bonuses they use. I suppose, particularly for production focused ones, this is not so bad as you can set a few cities to 'build' wealth to offset those losses, but it still can make some of the ones really designed to bring in a LOT of gold rather pointless because even though they do, it was mostly to offset the increasing dues they cost and still you were really profiting off the % mods you could get in your financial center.
Last edited:
ingvarr777
Chieftain
I also feel like there was some additional modifier applied from game difficulty, but now it's gone. But I may be wrong.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
What do you mean by "last couple of updates"? SVN Updates? Official Updates? Please be specific.
Not true, if anything with the added maint costd the reverse is more true.
This is only true If comparing Official versions like comparing Official v39 with Official v41. Because Yes the AI does start off faster than the player in Research and therefore Money from Prince Difficulty thru Deity now.
ingvarr777
Chieftain
SVN updates, of course. And I am comparing to two SVN updates back, not to v41. I am talking about AI civs doing research in much less turns after update (I see how much turns it takes through spying and it takes 3-4 times less turns for the same level technology for them).
ingvarr777
Chieftain
What I'm talking about is when you look at tooltip of any building: an amount of everything you see after the name of the building vs an amount after "actual". Before the update everything "actual" was much more than what's after the name of the building. After the update, "actual" hammers and food are equal to what is after the name of the building, and gold and science are still much more. I don't see the logic behind this change(
There's a general consensus that plot yield should be a significant factor for cities, before this change they were an insignificant factor, now they are significant, that is the logic of the change.
We may still add a lesser used modifier that can boost the yield all building provide, and we may make some buildings that increase the yields of specific plots too.
However we decide to develop C2C building stats in the future, this change was necessary to make spreading cities apart a viable strategy versus packing them as dense as possible.
We may still add a lesser used modifier that can boost the yield all building provide, and we may make some buildings that increase the yields of specific plots too.
However we decide to develop C2C building stats in the future, this change was necessary to make spreading cities apart a viable strategy versus packing them as dense as possible.
Currently specialist yield is not affected by modifiers, I was torn about if they should or not when making the change, I went for plot yield above all else to begin with, but I'm open to include specialist yield into the group of yield that are affected by the general percentage modifiers. My sentiment atm is that we try it out as it is now a bit before we discuss if specialist yield should be included after all.
Last edited:
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
I suppose since I already felt that spreading cities apart was STILL a better strategy, (because I only train military from a few focused locations so as to ensure obtaining nearly undefeatable armies) I have to think this is likely weighting things a little too far towards spread out cities BUT, it would certainly help to improve later game pacing and I can see how its quite possible that I might end up liking it. I'll reserve judgement and let the test run without further comment but its nice to have it officially announced that this is where we are with a major game rule change.
Maltazard
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2008
- Messages
- 430
By medieval era with the various crane, clocks and mills contraptions, both production from buildings and production % increase started to really boom and stack with each other, with this change it's going to be more or less halved ... that's really a lot. At this point city placing becomes so much more important that it might be better to force one more tile spacing in between cities (this mostly for the AI who I often see places cities at minimum distance from one another) and enable the third ring of tiles much earlier, especially because metropolitan administration is so far into the tech tree, at this point I'd make influential culture level enable the third ring of tiles not an option but default.
That being said, I sometimes prefer to pack two cities closer than ideal in order to work a certain resource, whether for culture requirements or strategic ones, which would otherwise be left out of reach due to geographical constraints... now it's going to be a much tougher call.
I'll admint I'm hesitant to upgrade SVN, my ongoing medieval era game with many overlapping cities would be devastated by this nerf
That being said, I sometimes prefer to pack two cities closer than ideal in order to work a certain resource, whether for culture requirements or strategic ones, which would otherwise be left out of reach due to geographical constraints... now it's going to be a much tougher call.
I'll admint I'm hesitant to upgrade SVN, my ongoing medieval era game with many overlapping cities would be devastated by this nerf
Last edited:
Baskedyt
Concerned citizen
I have an issue with the score in the Mastery Victory condition.
The score for my two leading opponents jumps from -10 billion to +1,5 billion to almost +10 billions within 10 turns.
The reason I noticed was I got a notification that said that the Mercy Rule was activated, and I had 30 turns to improve my score. But because their score jumps so much, the timer resets all the time, so I'm not in danger of loosing my game.
I don't know if it matters, but I have changed human player via the debug mode a few times during my game, because I got to far ahead too soon.
Just before these massive jumps in score Suleiman had just reached Phenomenal culture status with his capital, which was the first city to do so.
I currently play on SVN v40.1.2584 because I'm afraid to brake my game, since I have finally reached Atomic age, so if it has been dealt with in a later version, please excuse me.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tpdrnbua5od8ewn/Civ4ScreenShot0000.JPG?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cwet1rr6u4q57g6/Civ4ScreenShot0001.JPG?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vpjfqw56px5nnw9/Civ4ScreenShot0002.JPG?dl=0
The score for my two leading opponents jumps from -10 billion to +1,5 billion to almost +10 billions within 10 turns.
The reason I noticed was I got a notification that said that the Mercy Rule was activated, and I had 30 turns to improve my score. But because their score jumps so much, the timer resets all the time, so I'm not in danger of loosing my game.
I don't know if it matters, but I have changed human player via the debug mode a few times during my game, because I got to far ahead too soon.
Just before these massive jumps in score Suleiman had just reached Phenomenal culture status with his capital, which was the first city to do so.
I currently play on SVN v40.1.2584 because I'm afraid to brake my game, since I have finally reached Atomic age, so if it has been dealt with in a later version, please excuse me.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tpdrnbua5od8ewn/Civ4ScreenShot0000.JPG?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cwet1rr6u4q57g6/Civ4ScreenShot0001.JPG?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vpjfqw56px5nnw9/Civ4ScreenShot0002.JPG?dl=0
irishhombre
King
On the latest SVN land based hunters can get master sea hunter as a promotion, I think it might be an error.
Spoiler Uh oops :
lol fixed it now on github
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Again you all narrow the view for playing this mod. The AI was already doing this and not packing as claimed. So now you take it away from the player as well. Narrow tunnel vision imhpo. And always will be. The game Is playing just fine with out this overthought idea.
Why instead did you not reduce the major resources on a map instead of this. The Options More Rivers, More Resources and 1 other I forgot the name of atm Are the biggest contributors to glutted maps and city packing.
But instead of addressing these options or rather the unnecessary need for haing them you do this instead.....
Very short sightedness.lol, I'm giving players a choice, packing them dense is still a viable option now, spreading them apart was not a viable option before, now that is as well.
Maltazard
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2008
- Messages
- 430
If I recalc and see that I lose half my hammers in the early medieval era, it doesn't really feel still viable. Especially because the supposed compensation that should kick in from the extra space (assuming it is there which can or not be true and if it isn't enforced by increasing the minimum distance between cities the AI will never make a good use of this) comes way later into the game, if at all (if you don't have forests and hills you'll have to wait for factories before you get any sizeable hammers from plots). Overall this change didn't boost plot yields, only nerfed city production: it was just a net negative for hammers all around, without adjusting buildings and units cost. If you wanted to make both viable options then just boost plot yields, larger cities will have a lot more hammers this way and packed cities remain unaffected instead.
I guess it's just two different philosophies of game design, incentivize a behaviour by nerfing a better option, or by making that behaviour more desirable making it better on its own merits? A nerf is more destructive to the game balance, then it should come with a lot of other adjustments around it (ie production costs).
There are also indirect ways that could impact the viability of larger cities: options like realistic culture spread and cities start with one plot discourage planning for cities with three full rings for instance. If the third ring of plots came into play earlier, they'd probably be more viable, also if I'm not playing with the option that enables the third ring of plots at influential culture level then accounting for it becomes almost an afterthought, because by the time metropolitan administration is unlocked then it's pretty much irrelevant with everything else that goes on in the game. Meanwhile though, now production is severely nerfed until then, with nothing to make up for it.
I guess it's just two different philosophies of game design, incentivize a behaviour by nerfing a better option, or by making that behaviour more desirable making it better on its own merits? A nerf is more destructive to the game balance, then it should come with a lot of other adjustments around it (ie production costs).
There are also indirect ways that could impact the viability of larger cities: options like realistic culture spread and cities start with one plot discourage planning for cities with three full rings for instance. If the third ring of plots came into play earlier, they'd probably be more viable, also if I'm not playing with the option that enables the third ring of plots at influential culture level then accounting for it becomes almost an afterthought, because by the time metropolitan administration is unlocked then it's pretty much irrelevant with everything else that goes on in the game. Meanwhile though, now production is severely nerfed until then, with nothing to make up for it.
Last edited:
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
To offer a little defense, this is a tentative adjustment to see if its a positive one ultimately. We have had an inflation of all yields and commerces to the point that eras beyond the first few are moving way too fast through according to the goal of keeping all eras moving at roughly the same speed. When you have EVERYTHING, production, food, research, gold, etc, feeling out of control high past the classical era, a change like this very well may be a good way to find it possible to start rebalancing things. There ARE more inflation matching mechanisms one can use, but it might be that this hits a much closer game pace intended in one simple shift. It would cause a game in progress to feel as if it's being tortured before it balances itself out sure but that doesn't mean it's not still potentially the most useful and easy way to address the situation we've never been quite able to get ahold of.
Similar threads
- Sticky
- Sticky
