Weed?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Narz, Nov 28, 2021.

?

Should weed be legal?

  1. No

    11.9%
  2. Only as medicine under doctor's orders

    19.0%
  3. Yes, full legality

    69.0%
  1. Narz

    Narz keeping it real

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2002
    Messages:
    28,562
    Location:
    St. Petersburg, Florida
    Should weed be legal?

    What sort of social/economic/psychological effects can we expect if it is fully legalized in all/most countries?
     
  2. amadeus

    amadeus Gimme a C! A bouncy C!

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2001
    Messages:
    36,995
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Osaka (大阪)
    I lean towards legalization, but I have suspicions about its effects and whether it would be good for society in general. So, I picked the middle-of-the-road option, and say yes there are legitimate medical uses for it.
     
  3. Broken_Erika

    Broken_Erika Nothing

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2004
    Messages:
    8,951
    Location:
    Glasgnopolis, Grottland
    Canada seems to have a good model. We classify it the same as alcohol. And we pretty much annihilated the black marked for weed in a very short time. No more weed sales for organized crime. And we get a huge amount of tax revenue from it.
    Tax and Trade works far better than Prohibition.
     
  4. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2006
    Messages:
    21,428
    I used to be pro-legalization, but lately I've drifted away from that. I don't see any particular reason it should be legalized. It is brought up how tobacco is legalized; but is that really an argument in favor of weed legalization, or is that an argument against tobacco legalization? If tobacco was brand new, would we be voting to legalize it in 2021?
     
    The_J likes this.
  5. Hygro

    Hygro soundcloud.com/hygro/

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2002
    Messages:
    23,831
    Location:
    California
    Yes, obviously.
     
  6. Narz

    Narz keeping it real

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2002
    Messages:
    28,562
    Location:
    St. Petersburg, Florida
    Innocent until proven guilty? Under what grounds was it made illegal?

    The default for plants is that they are legal.

    Re : tobacco, should be legal but you have to smoke 20 feet away from nonsmokers.

    It's hard to compare the two tho as tobacco causes cancer whereas weed does not generally cause physical harm.
     
    Drakle likes this.
  7. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2006
    Messages:
    21,428
    Smoking weed is not good for your health. It may not be as bad as tobacco, but is that really a reason to legalize it?
     
    Ranger0001 likes this.
  8. Synsensa

    Synsensa Deity Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2006
    Messages:
    22,954
    I do not see a good reason to imprison people and destroy their ability to thrive because they chose to consume something, harmful or not.
     
  9. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2006
    Messages:
    21,428
    That's a separate question from whether something should be legal.
     
    amadeus likes this.
  10. amadeus

    amadeus Gimme a C! A bouncy C!

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2001
    Messages:
    36,995
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Osaka (大阪)
    @Synsensa is taking the anarcho-capitalist position that all state action is inherently coercive and backed by possible imprisonment/state-sanctioned murder. :mischief:
     
  11. Synsensa

    Synsensa Deity Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2006
    Messages:
    22,954
    Can you explain why it should be illegal and then not acted upon by authority?
     
    Samson likes this.
  12. Sarin

    Sarin King

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2013
    Messages:
    920
    If you can't make a good case for why it should be illegal, it should be legal.
     
  13. emzie

    emzie wicked witch of the North

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2004
    Messages:
    21,033
    Location:
    Ottawa, Ontario
    I haven't smoked weed since like 2019. I use it daily.
     
    Samson likes this.
  14. Synsensa

    Synsensa Deity Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2006
    Messages:
    22,954
    *nods knowingly* Suppositories.
     
    emzie likes this.
  15. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    20,932
    Location:
    the golf course
    some reasons:

    1) you wont have to threaten people to pay for your law
    2) or the 10s of millions of people who use weed with imprisonment
    3) bystanders victimized by your mistakes deserve better, tell them why they dont
    4) illegal weed funds criminal gangs, look at what illegal weed here did to Mexico
    5) crime increases as everyone involved has no legal recourse over disputes
    6) so more law enforcement and a BLM movement complaining about the police
    7) explain why its your business without using guilt by association
    8) marijuana has medicinal properties, alcohol is poison - the hypocrisy is obvious
    9) the war on weed is unconstitutional, Congress cant punish you for a plant
    10) racists ban weed and target people of color, where art thou BLM?

    Biden voters bite their tongues

    got more... what are your most compelling reasons?

    Consent of the governed is a moral principle underlying a just government, but what does it mean? I think it generally means I need moral authority first before I can consent. For example, if I dont want neighbors can I tell politicians to kill them? How can I consent to actions I cant pursue myself? I dont have the moral authority to decide what you choose to ingest and I cant imagine our constitutional system of limited government gave such a dictatorial power to Congress. It didn't...

    The history of how weed became illegal is a decades long song and dance routine to side step the Constitution. They couldn't just ban it because hemp grew in many states and they hadn't fully corrupted the interstate commerce clause yet, so they hit hemp production with a hefty tax. Ofc all those people farming hemp didn't know all that talk about them Mexicans and their devil weed meant a prohibitive tax on them, silly Americans.

    WWII put a temporary halt to the war on weed since hemp was a vital resource to the war effort and I think 1-2 decades after the war the tax was ruled unconstitutional, not so much based on the tax but the fact the government wasn't even selling tax stamps to hemp producers wanting to pay the tax.

    The courts very early on decided Congress couldn't use a legitimate power (eg taxation) to create other powers not allowed, like the power to deter hemp production with prohibitive taxes. In other words, Congress cant use taxation to ban intrastate hemp production. Taxes are for raising revenue, not micromanaging personal behavior.
     
    Narz likes this.
  16. stinkubus

    stinkubus Emperor

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2016
    Messages:
    1,697
    I actually agree with most of your post @Berzerker but how was interstate commerce corrupted?

    As written the constitution gives the feds a blank check.
     
  17. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    20,932
    Location:
    the golf course
    One of the perceived weaknesses to the Articles of Confederation was the trade wars the states engaged in with each other, so the Constitution gave Congress the power to regulate interstate and foreign commerce. The ICC was meant to create free trade within the USA and give federal courts oversight. That way people in different states could engage in trade and have a 'neutral' arbiter decide disputes rather than having to 'travel' to the state of the party being sued.

    But the ICC was one of those powers Congress would latch onto when expanding their power. Regulating back then in the context of interstate commerce meant the free flow of goods where people could depend on fair treatment when disputes arose. Putting that aside, the ICC was really expanded under FDR and the court packing scheme. The SCOTUS was saved but they loosened up on allowing his agenda.

    It was about that time Congress passed the tax on weed. They didn't use the ICC because weed was intrastate. And the story behind it smacks of crony fascism. The guy who gave us "Remember the Maine" didn't like competing with hemp so his newspapers (Rosebud) smeared brown people and their evil weed and the threat they posed to our fine young cannibals.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wickard_v._Filburn

    So regulating interstate commerce had come to mean punishing you for eating the tomatoes grown in your garden. Yup. You see, if lots of people have gardens they dont need to buy as much food and that has an effect on interstate commerce. There is little under the sun Congress cant do with that interpretation. Hell, they could make you buy a car for its desired effect on interstate commerce.
     
  18. stinkubus

    stinkubus Emperor

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2016
    Messages:
    1,697
    Why does this not lead you to the conclusion that yhe constitution is an absurd, vacuous document? Why do you hero worship the men who negotiated it and wrote it?

    Also do you think Marbury v Madison was correctly decided?
     
    Drakle likes this.
  19. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    20,932
    Location:
    the golf course
    I dont think they're heroes, but it aint their fault if we ignore their pieces of paper. Lysander Spooner argued we have no duty or moral obligation to abide by deals they made, I agree. The people with badges and guns disagree.

    as for that case, yes, the courts have the power and obligation to strike down unconstitutional laws.
     
  20. stinkubus

    stinkubus Emperor

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2016
    Messages:
    1,697
    But the constitution did not grant it to them?
     

Share This Page