Weed?

[Farm Boy]

Canning jars are reusable, but not exactly inconspicuous. You get a good system down and you produce significantly less waste than commercial packaging. It doesn't seem like getting weed cut with something "extra" is exactly a high risk(ha!, but what do I really know) so it then becomes a feature of how high a hallucinogen percentage the product comes in at. You can roundabout tell just by looking. I don't think this is one of the situations where legalization and regulation make the end product significantly safer to consume. It mostly just puts the profits of process into "upstanding" members of the public. In that limited sense, legalization of weed might actually be sort of a loss.

 

[Samson]

I don't think this is one of the situations where legalization and regulation make the end product significantly safer to consume.

It may not be safer for your lungs, but may be safer for your bottom if it keeps you out of jail.

 

[Farm Boy]

Right. If you are consuming. Which isn't what we had huge sentences for in the first place. That was always for making money(selling and producing) that the protection racket didn't get a big enough cut from. They'll still throw you in jail for producing and selling. The virtues of legalization have been misrepresented to make suburban consumers feel good about the thing.

 

[warpus]

I guess something like 90% of the volume of the market is "I want to get as high as possible for the lowest cost".

Are you sure? I would guess that most people looking to buy legally want a fun experience. I mean, I have no idea, but these aren't meth addicts, these are average Canadians with 9-5 jobs who might walk into one of these stores every once in a while and pick some up to try. Business professionals, etc. They're not looking to get wasted, they just want something to take the edge off. I'm sure the extremes exist too, but they have likely been smoking weed for years already and have a guy they're happy with - probably cheaper and higher quality. Or just buy online on one of the many illegal sites that supposedly exist and ship from BC. If you're the kind of person who wants to get the strongest product while minimizing cost, you are not going to be buying legally.

 

[Samson]

Are you sure? I would guess that most people looking to buy legally want a fun experience. I mean, I have no idea, but these aren't meth addicts, these are average Canadians with 9-5 jobs who might walk into one of these stores every once in a while and pick some up to try. Business professionals, etc. They're not looking to get wasted, they just want something to take the edge off. I'm sure the extremes exist too, but they have likely been smoking weed for years already and have a guy they're happy with - probably cheaper and higher quality. Or just buy online on one of the many illegal sites that supposedly exist and ship from BC.

I could believe that 10% of the customers buy 90% of the weed (or perhaps 20% and 80%), and that minority are the most price conscious sector. Just as both reasonable wine and cheap larger may be consumed by similar numbers of people, but they sell a lot more larger. Also, the amount you get through if you have a bit once a week compared to if you have as much as you can whenever you can is much greater with weed than booze.

If you're the kind of person who wants to get the strongest product while minimizing cost, you are not going to be buying legally.

But why? Doing it outside in easily accessible areas is going to minimise your costs per unit THC, and is more visible so being legal has the greatest advantage. To produce this high quality "artisan" weed you do it inside under lights, like they do it in the UK because it can be done illegally. Yet that weed in the UK is like half the price of legal weed online in California, and at least as good.

 

[Farm Boy]

I would guess commercial weed has more pressure on it to be super high content(since they test and advertise on it), so it nees maximum input costs for light expenditure, soil/hydroponic quality, trim, anti fungals, no weed pressure, etc. I would guess the legal stuff takes at least as much resources per lb of product to produce. Very likely more.

But middlemen, marketing, and corruption. Government officials are expensive because they can be. Poors probably need to smoke less anyhow. They'd be more useful to us more successful if they bootstrapped sober harder.

 

[warpus]

But why?

Because if you are after the strongest product for the cheapest price, you have been doing this for a while and probably have access to cheaper & stronger product from a grey or black market provider. You also likely have preferences wrt to strains and the strength and so on, and from what I've been told you can find much stronger and cheaper stuff on the black market than anything that's legal. There's a lot more variety and it's cheaper and stronger, etc.

Doing it outside in easily accessible areas is going to minimise your costs per unit THC

You're right, but here in Canada weed grown outdoors isn't very popular. I mean, you can still buy it, but it's going to be more "ghetto", cheaper, less potent, less appealing to your average thc connoisseur, etc. The people who are buying the strong stuff are buying stuff grown indoors. Those who don't care what they buy, but just want to buy something, will buy whatever the cheapest option is.

 

[Samson]

you can find much stronger and cheaper stuff on the black market than anything that's legal. There's a lot more variety and it's cheaper and stronger, etc.

You're right, but here in Canada weed grown outdoors isn't very popular.

I think we are arguing different questions. I am asking why this is. It is trivially demostrable that you can go online anywhere in Europe or North America and buy weed illegally online, and in a few bits of those continents you can also do so legally. And doing it illegally is both stronger, cheaper, and you have more choice. And doing it legally means you can do it outside which is cheaper. How does this work from an economic standpoint? I am not convinced by your stoners want the strongest so lights, a lot of people like the good outdoor weed and many will accept it if it is cheap, but it does not really change the question.

 

[warpus]

And doing it legally means you can do it outside which is cheaper.

Yeah, but those who are really into this stuff will not buy outdoor weed, they'll want indoor weed. Outdoor weed here is not really popular, I don't think? It's a plan C sort of deal from what I understand.

I'm not sure if I'm fully grokking the question still. This is initially what I was responding to:

I guess something like 90% of the volume of the market is "I want to get as high as possible for the lowest cost".

This isn't true (in Canada at least), because those who want the strongest stuff are those people who smoke all the time and know the product very well - so they are picky, they want specific strains, they want good quality, etc. They aren't just deadbeats who are smoking to get high, they want a nice pleasant experience that matches their mood and so on. And I mean, some will just want to get blasted, but IMO a lot of our market is.. more civilized than that. They will not just look for the strongest & cheapest and immediately buy it just because it's cheap and strong. They will read up on all the strains on display and pick one based on a number of variables. Those who don't have much money to spend on this might very well turn to cheaper outdoor product or whatever, I think you can get that at some of the reservations here (but could be wrong)

Think of the Canadian market for this as somewhat educated on what's possible. So when we get a poor legal product that's pricy, a lot of people will just turn to something superior. For the majority of people though (I think) legal stores sort of offer the same sort of dynamic as the Steam store. You pay more, but it's legal and convenient. If you want better and cheaper, you'll have to know a guy or order on some other website, etc. and a lot of people are put off by that, the same way some people will buy all their games legally just because they don't want trojans or to deal with the law or whatever.

 

[Farm Boy]

So, it's the process. California's weed is cheaper than Illinois', it's a different process. A different set of protection taking a different rake off the top, so each step of the process.

First, the growing licenses are limited. When Illinois opened it up legally, I looked into it. I certainly have the room, I'm close enough to transportation hubs and markets, and honestly, I can think of worse ways to make a living than growing marijuana as a cash crop if it were on the up and up and the product is profitable. I got as far as the application to apply for a license itself costing six figures. And this is to apply for a very limited number of spots, I think there were 15 or 30 in the first run. Also in order to apply you needed to get in place a huge amount of infrastructure and security arrangements. And this is in order to produce a product that is not rocket science, does not require a ton of indoor space, and is affordable to buy the apparatus for. But, it is a high effort/care/futzing enterprise to do well. So passionate people will wind up being very good at it. Also, it's really not that hard to grow a bunch more than you can smoke yourself. The heaviest smokers I know that use recreationally go through in the neighborhood of a quarter oz a week. There are people who use a lot more, but most users use much less. Plants can yield a pound each every lets say ~4 to 8 months. I'm generalizing, I don't have any experience, and I'm guessing like most commercial horticulture, knowledge comes with practice and then comes skill, which matters a lot for end yield and efficient use of input costs.

Somebody growing for themselves with time and money for the hobby can probably smoke out themselves and a dozen of their friends on average. If they can get some money for their hobby, it's all the more likely they do it. Which is why that's not allowed. Vinny already told you there's only two lawn services allowed in this neighborhood and don't you think it would be a shame if something happened to your nice bum bum in the penitentiary? And that's only step one. You now have storefronts that will only accept cash that are high risk robbery targets that have to hire their own armed security, which is expensive. You also need a lot of government approvals and licensing for the store. You now need to pay people at least minimum wage to work the store, because the entities that get all the licenses are not mom and pops, they're owned by investors. All the infrastructure increases the take at every step, which then increases the total amount taxed at the end. Whether or not all the regulation is a good idea, a bad idea, or potato... this is all taxation. There was a rebellion when we did this to whiskey in the 1700s. We* crushed them then, this fight's been over for a while.

*And when I say We, I mean with George ****ing Washington We crushed them.

 

[Hygro]

Wait just to apply for one of the limited spots cost 6 figs? Do you get your money back if passed over?

 

[Farm Boy]

You know the answer to that.

 

[Hygro]

And the odds that cronyism influences the selection?
Below 100%?

 

[Farm Boy]

Well, it has to be below 100%!

 

[Samson]

So, it's the process. California's weed is cheaper than Illinois', it's a different process. A different set of protection taking a different rake off the top, so each step of the process.

First, the growing licenses are limited. When Illinois opened it up legally, I looked into it. I certainly have the room, I'm close enough to transportation hubs and markets, and honestly, I can think of worse ways to make a living than growing marijuana as a cash crop if it were on the up and up and the product is profitable. I got as far as the application to apply for a license itself costing six figures. And this is to apply for a very limited number of spots, I think there were 15 or 30 in the first run. Also in order to apply you needed to get in place a huge amount of infrastructure and security arrangements. And this is in order to produce a product that is not rocket science, does not require a ton of indoor space, and is affordable to buy the apparatus for. But, it is a high effort/care/futzing enterprise to do well. So passionate people will wind up being very good at it. Also, it's really not that hard to grow a bunch more than you can smoke yourself. The heaviest smokers I know that use recreationally go through in the neighborhood of a quarter oz a week. There are people who use a lot more, but most users use much less. Plants can yield a pound each every lets say ~4 to 8 months. I'm generalizing, I don't have any experience, and I'm guessing like most commercial horticulture, knowledge comes with practice and then comes skill, which matters a lot for end yield and efficient use of input costs.

Somebody growing for themselves with time and money for the hobby can probably smoke out themselves and a dozen of their friends on average. If they can get some money for their hobby, it's all the more likely they do it. Which is why that's not allowed. Vinny already told you there's only two lawn services allowed in this neighborhood and don't you think it would be a shame if something happened to your nice bum bum in the penitentiary? And that's only step one. You now have storefronts that will only accept cash that are high risk robbery targets that have to hire their own armed security, which is expensive. You also need a lot of government approvals and licensing for the store. You now need to pay people at least minimum wage to work the store, because the entities that get all the licenses are not mom and pops, they're owned by investors. All the infrastructure increases the take at every step, which then increases the total amount taxed at the end. Whether or not all the regulation is a good idea, a bad idea, or potato... this is all taxation. There was a rebellion when we did this to whiskey in the 1700s. We* crushed them then, this fight's been over for a while.

*And when I say We, I mean with George ****ing Washington We crushed them.

So, the answer is that it is more expensive to deal with the bureaucracy and a 15% tax than the drug war that the US spends billions or trillions on? I guess that makes sense, thanks for the insight. Though in this day and age I would not suggest a storefront. Online only is the way to reduce your overheads.

 

[Zardnaar]

Why's that?


That's unfortunate. It's not going to give you cancer tho. It's more in the category of having to spend time w someone who wears excessive amounts of repulsive perfume or cologne.

That's more a matter of your neighbors needing to have respect for your wishes. Loud music is also a constant problem w neighbors but it should obviously be legal to play music while showing basic respect.

Smoke particles in lungs if nothing else and/or ultimately a boring person.

If you need to use pot for the high or fun it's kinda boring to me.

 

[Samson]

Smoke particles in lungs

A whole lot healthier than booze I reckon.

 

[Gorbles]

Smoke particles in lungs if nothing else and/or ultimately a boring person.

If you need to use pot for the high or fun it's kinda boring to me.

What's the difference in using video games, or alcohol, or whatever? In terms of fun vs. boring, not necessarily health risks (which I'd agree with Samson is prolly actually lowest for weed, compared to some other things).

I don't smoke (or otherwise take) weed, (I do, in fact, play video games and drink alcohol), but I really don't see the difference. How people get their kicks, how people socialise, etc.

 

[Zardnaar]

A whole lot healthier than booze I reckon.

That's a whataboutisms.

 

[Samson]

That's a whataboutisms.

Do you think that anyone who drinks is stupid?