What do you want out of life?

[Lemon Merchant]

Moderator Action: I think this thread is starting to get a little personal. Let's dial it back just a little bit, please.

 

[Gorbles]

@Narz

I don't see what I said as being any kind of ad hominem. Everyone has bias. I didn't mean that as an attack.

You're saying America has a drug problem. You were originally saying America has a mental health problem. That's what I was arguing about, and if you want to discuss the "very uncontroversial stuff" (that I can definitely argue against) we can continue discussing that problem. I don't want to start a new thread as it all relates to the same topic. I shouldn't have to start a new topic to discuss different factors relating to the same problem!

For example, you're claiming that "better living through chemistry towards mental health is not a success". I disagree. There are plenty of success stories about medication helping mental health. They're not isolated. They're not exceptional. Medication helps more than it harms.

A lot of cultural stigma (maybe moreso outside the US, I'm not sure) about taking medication making you "weak" is only just starting to be countered in the eye of the public (and even then it's an uphill battle). This is where I disagree. You think it's a done deal, that medication to help mental health "isn't enough".

I agree it isn't enough. There need to be better support networks, more acceptance (and low-cost availability) for therapy, and so on. We need a holistic approach to mental health, just as we have for physical health (we get time for when something is very obviously wrong with our physical bodies, but it's a battle to justify the same for mental health - why?). But medication hasn't failed. Your quotation of the falling average health of Americans based on opioid overdoses has no obvious relation to mental health. The suicides mentioned in the same link, the same. It could be that therapy, or familial support, failed individuals in all of these cases.

Just because medication hasn't solved a particularly difficult problem in a time when the dominant party in America is doing their best to trash healthcare and working class protections, doesn't mean the problem specifically is medication.

 

[Farm Boy]

All this stuff about how mental disorders aren't real is typical Boomer talk.

Imagined out of whole cloth for hurrumphing at?

 

[Synobun]

Imagined out of whole cloth for hurrumphing at?

Were I alive 10,000 years ago, my disorders would make me a whimsical member of the tribe who gets up to lovable hijinks.

 

[Farm Boy]

That requires an intensely specific reading to begin approaching. I did think "aloof" was a bit optimistic, but hey, good dreams can be a little idyllic, no?

Ok, so yours don't. Stipulated as you seem to insist, or not, if I am wrong. There's a lot more still out there to go with best wishes intact for present company.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Standing in judgement of oneself doesn't usually help (like clinically, scientifically it really doesn't, this cute psychology researcher Kelly Mcgonical has studied it, check her out on YouTube)

I would add: Just don't take this as a reason to suppress judgement. You deal with it by not categorizing and eventually perceiving it as a threat, but let it flow free, so you can be free. This is no medical advice. Or perfectly thought through. But it sounds really smart to me right now, and I do have some good reasons to say so, I believe.

 

[Hygro]

Were I alive 10,000 years ago, my disorders would make me a whimsical member of the tribe who gets up to lovable hijinks.

Wait you mean emzie as a boomer dismissing mental illness???

 

[Manfred Belheim]

I eat healthier than she does, I drink less, and such and such

she must be a real lush!

 

[MaryKB]

Every time I visit her, or she visits me, she gets me quite inebriated. If you think I'm bad here when I'm drunk, you should see me when I'm really out of it (or maybe you don't, lol!)

She's one of those people who always posts her food on Instagram, she spends a lot of her money on booze and restaurants.

 

[Hygro]

Party at Mary’s sisters house!

 

[Mouthwash]

you're either insincere or insane.

Well, I'm not insincere.

also, it should be obvious that the new mantra of "be unique, be authentic, be an individual" is in itself conformity and pressure.

Every societal value is, in some sense, conformity and pressure. But not in every sense (e.g. I may be pressured to not judge others for getting full-bodied tattoos and a forked tongue, but we still live in a world where people can make themselves into freaks without judgment).

but if you want one good example of regular old conformity, just think about the idea of women's beauty in society and tell me it doesn't almost exclusively conform to advertising or hollywood. no amount of body positivity on tumblr will stop young women from infavorably comparing themselves to stars & models.

There's a difference between values and base instinct.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

Well, I'm not insincere.

I think we now have found 2 things that we have in common

Every societal value is, in some sense, conformity and pressure. But not in every sense (e.g. I may be pressured to not judge others for getting full-bodied tattoos and a forked tongue, but we still live in a world where people can make themselves into freaks without judgment).

first off, your perception is warped. most people will still (wrongly, imo) think of "forked tongue" people as freaks. many friends of mine are routinely declined jobs because of barely visible tattoos. of course the stigma isn't as present in every layer of society, but it's still very much tangible.

second, your judgement of what does or does not constitute a freak is as subjective as it gets, and really doesn't mean anything.

third, even if those people are not negatively judged, they are still judged, just from the opposite direction. they're championed as being brave, individualistic, authentic. exactly as you say. this is in itself a form of comformity. peopel are comforming to our (and on this we wholly agree) weird 21st century idea of authenticity and personal development. the imperative is to be someone special, interesting, unique. how is this not just a different form of judgement and conformity? people that just want to be "boring", dress casually and don't really talk that much are led to conform to this new hegemony of uniqueness.

There's a difference between values and base instinct.

you will have to elaborate on this sentence, since I have no idea what you are trying to say. nothing I was talking about was in any way instinctive, matter of fact cultural developments/conformity are the opposite of instinctuous behavior.