What is the difference between depression and sadness?

[astrallite]

Sadness for me is something that is extremely temporary, something you can quickly end by either making the subject motivated or making mad. Wouldn't really work for someone clinically depressed.

 

[Borachio]

Sadness for me is a synonym for sorrow.

I feel sorrow when bereaved, and when I continue to miss the people for ever more.

I feel sorrow when I witness some unnecessary injustice (let's face it, all injustice is unnecessary).

I feel sorrow when I see someone suffering.

Depression is all about my internal state. It has no reference to the outside world. I'm very sad about it.

(I wonder if there's a valid distinction between the internal and the external.)

 

[Timsup2nothin]

(I wonder if there's a valid distinction between the internal and the external.)

In terms of cause, absolutely. Sadness and depression are both obviously internal, but the cause of sadness is often external...you listed some very valid ones...while depression is an internal condition with internal causes.

 

[Borachio]

Yet, you see, I can feel both sadness and depression about my own depression. (If I have it at all; I wouldn't say I ever really do, I just feel a bit pee'd off from time to time.)

 

[Hygro]

Depression is very visceral. For a long time I didn't recognize I had had bouts of it because I wasn't always unhappy. And definitely not sad.

I'm glad there's been so much research into it that people have been successfully treated. I do think depression itself can be a very useful experience for two reasons.

1) I believe it's one of the few times we slow down enough that we can substantively change direction.
2) I believe the mindbody is choosing it because it wants to upregulate certain neurotransmitter and hormone receptors in anticipation of a large task. i.e. charging up.

 

[El_Machinae]

Sadness is when you don't get cake.

Depression is when nothing tastes good anyway, so it wouldn't have mattered if you got cake or not.

Holy crap. That's bang on.

There are two things to remember. We remember enjoying cake. We learn that while depressed all cake is tasteless. So, under depression, we might do two things. We might keep trying different cakes, hoping to trigger that old sensation, and find a non-tasteless cake.

Or we might stop trying entirely. What's the point looking for cake, when you know they're all tasteless? We look into the future and think "What's the point?"

Sadness tends to have an exogenous cause, where most people hearing about it would say "yeah, that would make me sad, too". Depression, you ask us why we're sad, we might not be able to articulate, but if we do you'd say 'WTH?'

It gets especially tough if the depression ends up causing events that would make us feel sad. Good luck IDing the depression. "I really wish I'd gone to Disneyworld with my friends".

 

[bhavv]

For OTC drugs theres St Johns Wort.

I tried that first and had mixed results. The first brand I bought felt even more effective than SSRIs, but also had much stronger initial insomnia (SSRIs cause that very commonly and I had to also take hypnotics for 4 months too until it stopped), but then a higher dose brand I bought did absolutely nothing.

The main problem with St johns wort is that you cannot tell how effective each brand, and even each batch of the same brand will be as the active compounds are hard to standardise. The main compound that is standardised is Hypericin which is standardised to 0.3%.

The second active compound is Hyperforin, and this is apparantly very difficult to extract from the plant and standardise, so the majority of brands dont. Its also now believed to be the more effective compound in the drug as an antidepressant. I believe that the first brand I had bought might have had more of this compound, and the second had none as they were both 0.3% hypericin standardised.

Also Cambridge University are still trying to synthetically manufacture Hrperforin, but a different version that doesnt affect one of the liver enzymes. Due to its effect on the liver, if you only take St Johns Wort there is nothing wrong, and you can pretty much have as much as you like (too much can cause photosensitivity though). But mix it with just about any other drug and you can die. This caused it to be banned in France, and it has to carry health warnings in other countries, but in the UK it doesnt and you can buy it from most health stores.

Also in Germany, they prescribe St Johns Wort as a first line antidepressant before SSRIs, and they have much stricter pharmaceutical standards for extraction there so it is of a more consistent quality unlike health store pills. When used alone it has pretty much zero side effects, and also seems to be one of the only things that can potentially increase dopamine levels in the brain without causing addiction or dependancy. Just got to be careful with those many cross reactions, so even if wanting to use any other OTC drug with it, you need to ask a pharmacist or GP to make sure its safe to do so.

Moderator Action: Deleted sentences about the dosage of SJW to take and whether it is safe for children. That comes closer to being medical advice than we are comfortable with at this site.

 

[Traitorfish]

I'm not quite convinced that depression is always purely internal in origin. For me, depressive bouts are usually prompted by some sort of external stimulus, which my diseased brain works itself into a state of heightened anxiety over until it collapses into hoeplessness. The internal origin is still massively important, to be sure, because these stimuli aren't something that would cause most people to react that way, or that necessarily cause me to react that way, but there's usually a proximate cause for any given bout of misery-times.

Perhaps not the best example, really, because if my experience of depression is a result of anxiety, that's all down to brain chemistry in the end. But you take the point, that while a person may not be depressive because of external stimuli, a given episode of depression have been triggered by external stimuli- although, because we live in a cruel and unforgiving universe, there's no expectation that removing that stimuli will life the depression.

I'm no biologist but drugs sort of work in a chocolate fountain style, filling up each tray before spilling over into the one below. Sometimes doubling a dose doesn't get any more out of that tray's effect and spills into one you don't want.

Case in point, past the lethal dose, Benedryl acts as an SSRI.

[size]Ten bucks says Traitorfish knows where I formulated this post from.[/size]

I'm afraid the only bell "chocolate fountain" rings is that scene in The Vicar of Dibley....

 

[GenMarshall]

If I could put my two cents into it, since I have gone through it.

From my perspective, there's no differance between sadness and depression. Only that the sadness persist for a long time and there not just sadness that comes along. Anger can crop up for some.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Depression is very visceral. For a long time I didn't recognize I had had bouts of it because I wasn't always unhappy. And definitely not sad.

I'm glad there's been so much research into it that people have been successfully treated. I do think depression itself can be a very useful experience for two reasons.

1) I believe it's one of the few times we slow down enough that we can substantively change direction.
2) I believe the mindbody is choosing it because it wants to upregulate certain neurotransmitter and hormone receptors in anticipation of a large task. i.e. charging up.

Hm, sometimes I have episodes where I don't care about absolutely anything. See no meaning in anything. But I found that just relaxing into the experience instead of fighting it makes it at first tolerable and not for long makes it dissolve itself. However, when I try to fight it, try to will myself to feel different, things are prone to only get worse. Like a knot that tightens when you pull.
It sounds a bit like what you describe. Like my body insists on some kind of hibernate mode for a while and will fight me with all it got should I try to refuse. And once I kinda embrace it it in deed does help me to clear my mind and assume a fresh perspective. Hibernate mode is a wonderful time to just write down my flow of thoughts.

Perhaps depression means or can mean that the hibernate mode is broken. Your body doesn't come out of it in due time.

 

[Bootstoots]

Moderator Action: Just to repeat the disclaimer I recently edited in to the OP, this is a discussion thread only. Nobody should make any medical decision based on any posts in this thread. Do not do anything, such as starting or stopping any medication including OTCs, without consulting real-life medical professionals.

 

[brennan]

Sadness is when you don't get cake.

Depression is when nothing tastes good anyway, so it wouldn't have mattered if you got cake or not.

Well put.

Depression is a near permanent state of mind which bleeds into your everyday experiences. When I was depressed it went hand in hand with a touch of anhedonia.

Edit: I worked for a few months back in my temping days at the Mental Healthcare section of my local NHS trust.

The doctors give you a questionnaire to determine if you are depressed. If you tick enough boxes they give you some pills. The questions are all based upon recent life events such as: have you had a friend/relative/pet die? A relationship breakdown/divorce? Health problems? Failed an exam?

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

I'm afraid the only bell "chocolate fountain" rings is that scene in The Vicar of Dibley....

You mean you aren't here to work the chocolate fountain?

Link to video.

 

[EgonSpengler]

I think it may have been said already, but it's worth remembering that sadness is only one symptom of depression. I think you need 5-out-of-7 symptoms to warrant a clinical diagnosis (don't quote me on that, I don't have a DSM handy), so it's entirely possible to have depression and not feel sad.

 

[Borachio]

The symptoms of depression can be complex and vary widely between people. But as a general rule, if you are depressed, you feel sad, hopeless and lose interest in things you used to enjoy.

Psychological symptoms include:
continuous low mood or sadness
feeling hopeless and helpless
having low self-esteem
feeling tearful
feeling guilt-ridden
feeling irritable and intolerant of others
having no motivation or interest in things
finding it difficult to make decisions
not getting any enjoyment out of life
feeling anxious or worried
having suicidal thoughts or thoughts of harming yourself

Physical symptoms include:
moving or speaking more slowly than usual
change in appetite or weight (usually decreased, but sometimes increased)
constipation
unexplained aches and pains
lack of energy or lack of interest in sex (loss of libido)
changes to your menstrual cycle
disturbed sleep (for example, finding it hard to fall asleep at night or waking up very early in the morning)

Social symptoms include:
not doing well at work
taking part in fewer social activities and avoiding contact with friends
neglecting your hobbies and interests
having difficulties in your home and family life

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Depression/Pages/Symptoms.aspx

I've actually had all those symptoms but one. I wouldn't say I've ever really been depressed though.

Not to the extent of ever needing or seeking help.

 

[Chukchi Husky]

Looking at that list, I guess it means I've been depressed for years.

 

[GenMarshall]

(In looking at the symptoms) I don't know, when I was depressed, I tended to oversleep.

 

[Borachio]

Looking at that list, I guess it means I've been depressed for years.

Could be. Have you spoken to your doctor?

 

[Chukchi Husky]

I don't speak to doctors, or most people.

 

[brennan]

You speak to us.