What would you change? The worst ending thread.
- Thread starter rah
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Ajidica
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Yeah, that's the miniseries I mentioned. I liked the miniseries on first watching it, but over time I've become more aware of its flaws and disjointed storytelling. They were clearly trying to jam an entire season into it, with each 'episode' getting 15 minutes or so before jumping to a new place.
I agree completely.
Lexicus
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Not yet, but I just am not as much into the western/jazz/space aesthetic as much as the samurai/hip-hop one
hobbsyoyo
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I would not change the ending to Battlestar Galactica (reboot). The first time I watched it, I hated it. The second and third times, I came to love it. It really fit with the story. Even though it wasn't the ending that people wanted, it is an ending that makes a lot of sense in the context of the mythos of the show. I'd also argue that many of the endings that people want are boring and hard to pull off in a way that's consistent with the rest of the show.
Actually that sounds kind of fun to be honest.
I hope it doesn't end with a giant galactic war with god-beings that concludes with a Kessel run to the center or edge of the universe for the special finishing-move nanotechnology warp bubble generator with a plucky crew of alien misfits that hook up from one end of the galaxy to the other.
Actually that sounds kind of fun to be honest.
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I absolutely loathe Enterprise. It is NOT a true prequel to TOS because of all the retconning, starting with the fact that in TOS-history, there never was a Captain Archer, and so many other things didn't happen (hello, the Borg weren't known to humans before the 24th century when the Hansen family was assimilated - as mentioned in Voyager).
Enterprise is, in my view, intended as a substitute for TOS, as a prequel to TNG, not TOS. There's no way that Enterprise and TOS are compatible, and definitely no way that DiscoTrek and TOS are compatible. They do not take place in the same universe, and there is no way I can be convinced otherwise.
I never saw the series finale of Enterprise (I gave up on the show in the 2nd season, it was so boring and pointless), but I've read plenty on TrekBBS about how everyone basically hates that two mediocre TNG characters horned in on what should have belonged to the Enterprise series.
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Zkribbler
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Psst. Shogun was a novel, not a history.
The expanse show was cancelled, but the books live on. The story holds up well into book 6. I'm still waiting on book 7.
I expect GRRM will publish Winds of Winter. Cross your fingers.
Shogun is a historical novel, which means it was based on history. Not all historical novels take accuracy seriously. The same is true of movies and TV shows. For instance, the ending of Gladiator is so ridiculously inaccurate that I don't even know where to start with my criticism.
What do you mean 'there never was a Captain Archer'? Does TOS say 'we've never had a captain named Archer?' or that Archer was never mentioned as a person? In both cases, TOS barely knew its own backstory and history, the lore behind the federation wasn't fleshed out, and just because they never mention Archer or show the NX as a ship model (hell I don't even think TOS ever said 'This is the first Enterprise of the Federation' - that was laid down a bit later, wasn't it?) doesn't automatically invalidate ENT canon wise.
ENT wasn't perfect, they messed up all the tech, the Xindi and Suliban plots are painfully War on Terror American dated, and the Romulan War was completely fudged over, but it wedged itself in better than not, IMO.
If this was a thread about changing series outright I would had used the XCV-330 Enterprise for the show, because 1) Warp Rings are cute 2) It helps smooth over the 'Akiraprise' criticism 3) Fits in with Spock's retelling of the 'primitive' starships of the Romulan War, 4) helps fill in that era of history better. The Warp Nacelle could had been formulated (or refined, due to First Contact's Phoenix already using Nacelles) as a plot point later in the show, probably with other species helping as a gesture to show how a united Federation of Planets can get things done).
hobbsyoyo
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It was picked up by Amazon Prime Video. They released S3 this year and there will be at least a season 4.
To be fair, the Romulan War in Enterprise never really got started. That was the plan for the fifth season if there had been one and they laid the ground work for it in Season 4. The cancellation was abrupt and they didn't get to do anything with that story arc.
I was not impressed with S3. Everything was very rushed. But like GOT, I'll probably watch it all after having read the books.
I agree that the last episode of Enterprise was totally ballsed up. Another show that was murdered by executive meddling was HBO/BBC's Rome, with the back half of the second series leapfrogging some 10 or 15 years, as plans for future series were 'telescoped' into those four or five episodes.
Bruno Heller is quoted as saying, "I discovered halfway through writing the second season the show was going to end. The second was going to end with the death of Brutus. Third and fourth season would be set in Egypt. Fifth was going to be the rise of the Messiah in Palestine. But because we got the heads-up that the second season would be it, I telescoped the third and fourth season into the second one, which accounts for the blazing speed we go through history near the end. There's certainly more than enough history to go around."
Bruno Heller is quoted as saying, "I discovered halfway through writing the second season the show was going to end. The second was going to end with the death of Brutus. Third and fourth season would be set in Egypt. Fifth was going to be the rise of the Messiah in Palestine. But because we got the heads-up that the second season would be it, I telescoped the third and fourth season into the second one, which accounts for the blazing speed we go through history near the end. There's certainly more than enough history to go around."
The TAS episode "The Counter-Clock Incident" says that Captain Robert April was the first Captain of the Enterprise. Pike followed April, and Kirk followed Pike. There is no mention of Archer anywhere in that progression.
TAS was produced and shown in the early 1970s. Therefore, Enterprise, if it was really supposed to be about the Enterprise's first captain, should have been about Robert April and his wife, Sarah Poole. I'd have been more than happy to watch a series about them.
And do not come back with "but TAS isn't canon" nonsense. If later shows and movies reference "Yesteryear" (another TAS episode) and call it canon, then "Counter-Clock Incident" should also be canon.
My brain glazes over at discussions of nacelles. I don't care what color they are, what size they are, or how many there are. I only care that a ship that's supposed to have them has them so it can go places. There are threads on TrekBBS about nacelles that are dozens of pages long. I'm not interested in starting that here, or at least not in OT. There's an "All Things Star Trek" thread in A&E if you want to argue it there.
What a shame they didn't pay attention to one critical detail. Because they made Livia Augustus' first wife, there is no way they could have had any more seasons. I've detailed this before, but the short form is this: Scribonia (his real first wife, who he divorced in order to marry Livia) gave birth to his only child, Julia. Julia gave birth to Agrippina the Elder, who married Germanicus (Livia's eldest grandson). Agrippina and Germanicus were the parents of both Caligula (later Emperor) and Agrippina the Younger (mother of Nero - later Emperor).
Delete Scribonia and you delete all of her descendants, who just happened to include two of the most notorious emperors in the entire Julio-Claudian dynasty. The only emperors who wouldn't be affected would be Tiberius and Claudius, as they were descended from Livia and her first husband and Augustus' sister and Mark Antony, respectively.
I suppose that if they intended to end the series with the Crucifixion, that would have been plausible since Jesus' life happened during the reigns of Augustus and Tiberius (Tiberius was not murdered until 37 AD, when he was succeeded by Caligula). But they would have utterly lost me if they'd had any children born between Augustus and Livia, because in real history, they didn't have children together (if they did, it would have made Julia and Tiberius' marriage incestuous, and while cousin marriages were okay, sibling marriages were not).
Really? That's your argument?
April was the first Captain of the USS-1701 Enterprise. That's all.It's a different ship. It doesn't mean there weren't any other Enterprises; nor was Enterprise the show supposed to be about that first Enterprise-in-the-Federation (as it was set as a prequel) or April. That's extremely pedantic to base your views on a show made thirty years after that line was set down and tie it to that.
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
I definitely think that Rome suffered from predating Game of Thrones. If it had started a decade later, the public appetite for period-dress intrigue would have been much higher.
Zkribbler
Deity
It means it is fiction based IN history.
People who claim "Anjin San or Blackthorne is William Adam while Mariko is the famous Christian daughter of Akechi Mitsuhide" are ignoring that fiction is made up. Blackthorne is NOT Adam; he is Blackthorn. If Clavell wanted Blackthorne to be Adam, he would have called him Adam, not Blackthorne. An author is allowed to write fiction in a historical novel.
This is not the only reason I loathe Enterprise. When the most interesting character on the show is a beagle, that's pretty pathetic. And I had been telling myself, "At least Scott Bakula is in it; I enjoyed Quantum Leap..." But not even Bakula could make this interesting to me.
I'm not going to argue this further here, because based on past experience, it's so easy to derail a thread into Star Trek-only arguments. Meet me in A&E if you want to continue.
On the other hand, how many period shows (Tudors, Reign, Borgia, The Borgias, etc.) would not have been made because "who could possibly compete with Game of Thrones?". The reason given for canceling The Borgias was that it cost too much to make. They only had 9 episodes in the first season instead of 10 because they ran out of money (filming in various locations in Europe for half a year, putting in research and effort to make everything at least look historically accurate - unlike Reign, which threw history out the window other than the name of the main character and one or two others).
Ohforpetessake.
Was the term "shogun" a historical term? Yes. Were Blackthorne and Lord Toronaga and Mariko based on historical figures? Yes. Did Spain and Portugal divvy up the world between them, without regard to what any people living in the relevant places wanted? Yes. Did Portugal have missionaries in Japan (remember Father Alvito?)? Yes.
Therefore, Shogun qualifies as a historical novel. That's a term indicating that a novel is based on some aspect of real history. It doesn't have to be accurate, just based on some part of real history. Some novels and authors are really good at this (Lindsay Davis does an incredible amount of research for her Falco and Flavia Alba Roman murder mysteries). Some aren't.
