What's happening in Syria right now??

[Tahuti]

Both has about a 10% Christian population.

Ok, that was a mistake on my part.

Still, Syria is slightly more religiously diverse than Egypt is due to the presence of the Alawites.

 

[LordRahl]

As with Libya before, why should I trust the media and some shady organizations supposedly within Syria for casualty reports, any more than I should trust the government of Syria?

I couldn't care less about Syria, but the level of denial in some people's posts is just staggering. I guess it's easier than accepting a simple truth that Russia and China have always been, are, and will be the bad guys for quite some time to come. "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing":
http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_new...ir-as-syria-bombards-city-of-homs-for-5th-day

 

[Agent327]

The country is divided, but a majority (55%) want Assad to stay in power.

I think Hitler´s support prior to WW II defats might have been slightly higher. Also, if 55 % of the population backs its regime killing its own citizens, does that make it OK? I beg to differ...

 

[Leoreth]

I couldn't care less about Syria, but the level of denial in some people's posts is just staggering. I guess it's easier than accepting a simple truth that Russia and China have always been, are, and will be the bad guys for quite some time to come. "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing":
http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_new...ir-as-syria-bombards-city-of-homs-for-5th-day

"Bad guys"? How ... unobjective *glasses pull*

Seriously, I don't support Russia's position here either but that doesn't make them evil.

 

[bombshoo]

I couldn't care less about Syria, but the level of denial in some people's posts is just staggering. I guess it's easier than accepting a simple truth that Russia and China have always been, are, and will be the bad guys for quite some time to come. "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing":
http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_new...ir-as-syria-bombards-city-of-homs-for-5th-day

Yes, because we all know the world is black and white.

I think Russia and China are totally in the wrong on this, but c'mon, seriously?

 

[Tahuti]

I couldn't care less about Syria, but the level of denial in some people's posts is just staggering. I guess it's easier than accepting a simple truth that Russia and China have always been, are, and will be the bad guys for quite some time to come. "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing":
http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_new...ir-as-syria-bombards-city-of-homs-for-5th-day

Evil is the wrong word: Looking after your interests would be more apt, for Russia and China would be fools not to support Syria, just like the West would be fools not to oppose Syria.

 

[asbestos]

I think Hitler´s support prior to WW II defats might have been slightly higher.

I'm not entirely familiar with the specifics of Hitler's support. Can you link me to a source please?

Also, if 55 % of the population backs its regime killing its own citizens, does that make it OK? I beg to differ...

According to the article which I highly recommend reading, half of that 55% also believes he must call for elections. Given the potential destructiveness of a civil war, I don't blame them for preferring that option.

And, frankly, I think any armchair discussion we can have on what to do about it is rendered moot by the fact that we won't be the ones dieing.

 

[Whiskey_Lord]

Honestly read this title as "What's happening in Skyrim right now." I need to get out more.

 

[kramerfan86]

lol China and Russia are acting no more bad than the US is when it supports its dictators of choice.

 

[Agent327]

Actually, especially China, and Russia slightly less so, have a habit of not supporting any action that might be considered a breach of another nation´s sovereignty. (Might have something to do with Tibet, I´m not sure...)

I'm not entirely familiar with the specifics of Hitler's support. Can you link me to a source please?

Seriously? OK, now let me see... Anti-NSDAP demonstrations: none. Anti-Hitler violence: none. (Some 40 plus assassination attempts, but they all failed, so the man must have been better than dead US presidents, right?)

IAccording to the article which I highly recommend reading, half of that 55% also believes he must call for elections. Given the potential destructiveness of a civil war, I don't blame them for preferring that option.

And, frankly, I think any armchair discussion we can have on what to do about it is rendered moot by the fact that we won't be the ones dieing.>

No, we don´t want elections in Syria, because we don´t care. In fact, let´s just close all foreign policy threads, as it doesn´t concern us... (And I read the Guardian article, and some comments thereof as well. But hey, we don´t care, so let´s not comment on it either.)

 

[aronnax]

Actually, especially China, and Russia slightly less so, have a habit of not supporting any action that might be considered a breach of another nation´s sovereignty. (Might have something to do with Tibet, I´m not sure...)

I'm under the impression that it is the other way round. China having used its veto 8 times to further direct interest of China since 1972. I'm convinced that Syria means little to China, they are just opposing because Russia is.

From WIKIPEDIA

The PRC has been sparing in its use of the Security Council veto, only using it eight times: in 1972 to veto the admission of Bangladesh (which it considered a rebellious province of its ally Pakistan), in 1973 (in conjunction with the Soviet Union) to veto a resolution on the ceasefire in the Yom Kippur War, in 1997 to veto ceasefire observers to Guatemala (which accepted the ROC as legitimate),[10] in 1999 to veto an extension of observers to the Republic of Macedonia (same),[11] in 2007 (in conjunction with Russia) to veto criticizing Myanmar on its human rights record[12], in 2008 (with Russia) to veto sanctions against Zimbabwe[13], in 2011 (with Russia) to veto sanctions against Syria[14], and in Feb. 2012 (with Russia) to veto for the second time a draft resolution calling for foreign military intervention in Syria.[15]

They abstained in the Gulf War vote. I don't like sanctions anyway. Except for weapons and arms.

 

[Agent327]

Could be that Rusia vetoes more often than China, but I wasn´t thinking directly of actual vetoes. Russia eventually supported, under condition, the intervention in Libya. Not sure what China´s stance was... China not voting on the Gulf War (the 1st one, I presume) makes them... not voting, so not supporting, just not opposing. (Didn´t know that last bit, BTW, so thanks for that.) Usually negotiations precede actual votes, so one would need to look into that to get a quantative answer on both countries´ stance vs intervention in other countries. My impressionwas that China´s stance is usually against such interventions. That China did not vote on the First Gulf War and Russia conditionally supported the Libya intervention seem the exceptions to the rule - but ofcourse, I could be mistaken.

From that same Wiki:

In the 1991 Gulf War resolution, the PRC abstained, and it voted for the ultimatum to Iraq in the period leading up to the 2003 War in Iraq. Most observers believe that the PRC would have abstained had a resolution authorising force against Iraq in 2003 reached the Security Council.[16][17]

(bolding by me)

The general impression given is that China favours diplomatic solutions. (Also, ofcourse, China only gained admission to the UN in 1971.)

 

[HannibalBarka]

I forgot that from a Muslim perspective, everything that transpires in any country anywhere in the world (especially in Muslim countries) is somehow organized, supported, initiated, planned, plotted, or perpetrated by the USA, Israel, or the West in general

If only it were true...

Other people in other places would however think it's Russia or the Islamist International Corporation, go figure

 

[Cheetah]

So I understand Homs, and other cities as well I pressure, have come under a major assault now? The grenades have been coming for a week, and now the tanks have started to roll in.

Bashar is finally ready to crush the rebellion for good I suppose...

He most likely did get the moral support he needed from Moscow.

 

[asbestos]

No, we don´t want elections in Syria, because we don´t care. In fact, let´s just close all foreign policy threads, as it doesn´t concern us... (And I read the Guardian article, and some comments thereof as well. But hey, we don´t care, so let´s not comment on it either.)

I'm not sure what you're getting at. All I was pointing out is that a majority of Syrians either directly support Assad, are fearful of the opposition if he goes, or want to avoid a bloody civil war; that the Syrian people are possibly expecting elections from Assad; that the Syrian opposition comprises some overtly racist and possibly genocidal elements; and that in the only case where NATO took part in opposing the government through war, it led to the armament and entrenchment of sectarian groups like Al-Qaeda - incidentally, some of those NATO weapons found their way into the hands of Boko Haram.

Others have pointed to the possibility that Saudi Arabia and Qatar are backing the uprising with the intention of upsetting the geopolitical balance of power in their favor, as they had backed the opposition in Lybia and the various Islamist parties in states like Egypt and Tunisia. I believe we should be skeptical of attempts by outside powers to meddle in the affairs of others, including such powers as NATO, Russia and China.

Clearly, the situation is not exactly comparable to fairly straightforward revolutions like Tunisia and - to a lesser extent - Egypt. I was merely cautioning against simple generalizations without providing any suggestions for a course of action, nor does my lack of initiative somehow imply my support for the regime.

Seriously? OK, now let me see... Anti-NSDAP demonstrations: none. Anti-Hitler violence: none. (Some 40 plus assassination attempts, but they all failed, so the man must have been better than dead US presidents, right?)

I'd still like some authoritative sources to study please.
(Not that I think the two situations with Syria and Germany should be treated the same.)

 

[Agent327]

Then I´d recommend

- Mommsen, Hans. The Third Reich between Vision and Reality: New Perspectives on German History, 1918–1945 (2001) online edition

- Bullock, Alan. Hitler: A Study in Tyranny, (1962) online edition

Getting back to Syria then, I´d agree elections would be preferable, though difficult to implement as already 6,000 citizens have been killed, reducing the chance of any side wanting to compromise seriously.

 

[Traitorfish]

I forgot that from a Muslim perspective, everything that transpires in any country anywhere in the world (especially in Muslim countries) is somehow organized, supported, initiated, planned, plotted, or perpetrated by the USA, Israel, or the West in general

If only it were true...

You realise that this is a grotesque generalisation of the "all-black-people-like-watermelon" variety, don't you?

(And please don't reply by insisting that all black people do, in fact, like watermelon.)

 

[wilycoyote]

You realise that this is a grotesque generalisation of the "all-black-people-like-watermelon" variety, don't you?

(And please don't reply by insisting that all black people do, in fact, like watermelon.)

I'm pretty sure all black people do like watermelon, and all whites and everyone else. It's delicious and refreshing. The seeds can be annoying, but spitting them at something or someone is fun!

 

[Agent327]

Even Syrians like ´em!

 

[aronnax]

I do sorta agree with asbestos on the fact that many Syrians are just as weary of foreign intervention in Syria as they are with Assad's retaliation. I would agree that if I was a Syrian and gulf monarchies are calling for the invasion of my country, even under good pretenses, I would have reacted negatively to it.