When should a professor doc grades?

[BvBPL]

When should a professor (or other educator) doc, or reduce, the grade of a student? What I mean is, when should the professor lower a grade based on something other than lower quality?

Secondary question: What role should honor code violations (cheating, plagiarism, and the like) have? Should honor code punishments be administrative, academic, or both?

Inspired by this article about a professor who is applying for a patent for a system that would doc the grades of student who use pirated or used texts.

 

[Zelig]

Never.

Cheating or plagiarism means the work has not been completed so no grade should be awarded for first offenses. Further offenses merit removal from the class/school as appropriate.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

When should a professor (or other educator) doc, or reduce, the grade of a student? What I mean is, when should the professor lower a grade based on something other than lower quality?

When no assignment is turned in at all. A couple of high school teachers in Edmonton are currently under suspension for doing this; apparently Edmonton's public school board has a "no zero-grade" policy.

If an assignment is turned in late without an acceptable reason.

Secondary question: What role should honor code violations (cheating, plagiarism, and the like) have? Should honor code punishments be administrative, academic, or both?

Both. Cheating is cheating.

Inspired by this article about a professor who is applying for a patent for a system that would doc the grades of student who use pirated or used texts.

This is reprehensible. I remember my college years and how expensive books were - even 30 years ago. They just got worse and worse, and finally even the instructors told us that they didn't care if we bought the books new, used, photocopied them from the library, read them in the bookstore, or shared them. Just so long as we read the material, were responsible for knowing it for exams, and completed the assignments. It really burns me up how students can be forced to pay $50-$200 for a book that they're not going to use all of it. I remember photocopying some of my stuff, and some other books were obtained through the local used bookstore (it helped to know where in town to get a used copy of Invitation to Sociology and Shogun for considerably less than the college bookstore was charging).

The professor shouldn't care where the students get the course material (unless he wrote it and gets extra $$$ for it). This looks like just another part of the post-secondary money grab.

 

[History_Buff]

Inspired by this article about a professor who is applying for a patent for a system that would doc the grades of student who use pirated or used texts.

That's absolutely preposterous. Does George RR Martin get to come after me because I once read a friends copy of his books? Does Mazda get to punish me because I once drove my Mom's van before? Do I owe Saturn money because I once bought a used car?

Even without that, textbooks are half a scam at this point anyway. You'd be amazed how often they shuffle a section or two (so the page numbers and problem numbers all change), then issue it as a new edition, in an attempt to render old versions less helpful. Which is itself bizarre, since half those textbooks are utterly unhelpful. I stopped buying them altogether after first year. If you write a terrible textbook, are you entitled to force me to buy it to pass the course?

 

[Winner]

After reading the article, I want to say "frak you" to the idiot who came up with the idea. So, basically this joker is in the pocket of the publishing houses, who want to squeeze more money from students, because apparently they are swimming in money.

Fortunately, nothing like this would ever pass in this country. In my university, plagiarism (even in non-essential stuff like regular essays) is usually punished by kicking the offender from the school. Where you get your source materials is your problem and your responsibility. Most professors scan the relevant texts and provide them on-line, so the part about the horror of students showing up with photocopied texts just made me laugh.

 

[IdiotsOpposite]

Inspired by this article about a professor who is applying for a patent for a system that would doc the grades of student who use pirated or used texts.

It's already been said, but this idea is insane, idiotic, and reprehensible. I'd state my reasons for claiming such, but others already have done so better than I could.

 

[BvBPL]

Never.

Cheating or plagiarism means the work has not been completed so no grade should be awarded for first offenses. Further offenses merit removal from the class/school as appropriate.

When no assignment is turned in at all. A couple of high school teachers in Edmonton are currently under suspension for doing this; apparently Edmonton's public school board has a "no zero-grade" policy.

Is it acceptable for a professors to note on syllabi that a particular project is worth, say, five or ten percent of one's total grade, but that it is a mandatory assignment and that failure to complete the assignment will result in a failing grade for the class? If that is acceptable, than please discuss why that set up would be preferable to simply weighing the assignment more heavily.

 

[Zelig]

Is it acceptable for a professors to note on syllabi that a particular project is worth, say, five or ten percent of one's total grade, but that it is a mandatory assignment and that failure to complete the assignment will result in a failing grade for the class? If that is acceptable, than please discuss why that set up would be preferable to simply weighing the assignment more heavily.

Not that I really care, but I'll say no, since I don't see the point.

 

[downtown]

I think docking a grade for an academic honor code violation is acceptable (instead of a first-offense, you're gone) sort of thing. I can't think of another specific reason where it would be okay off the top of my head, but I think there may be one.

My 4th grade students had a participation or behavior grade (a policy set by the district, not me), that meant they could not earn a A if their behavior was terrible enough.

 

[BvBPL]

I think docking a grade for an academic honor code violation is acceptable (instead of a first-offense, you're gone) sort of thing. I can't think of another specific reason where it would be okay off the top of my head, but I think there may be one.

My 4th grade students had a participation or behavior grade (a policy set by the district, not me), that meant they could not earn a A if their behavior was terrible enough.

Should the same rules that you apply to your nine year olds also apply to 19 year olds in college? On the one hand, imposing rules meant for fourth graders seems infantile for college students, but on the other it seems college students should be engaged when appropriate. Is failing to meet a minimal amount of participation an acceptable requirement for college even if the grade for participation would not would fail a student outright if one received a zero?

 

[JollyRoger]

Showing up in life is half the battle, so attendenance issues are fairly dockbale (you won't keep your job if you have problems showing up). Lack of participation should be potentially dockable if active participation enhances the classroom experience fr the others in the class. Used books should not be dockable - pirating should be. Cheating should be dockable if you don't get kicked out of the school.

 

[sophie]

I think docking a grade for an academic honor code violation is acceptable (instead of a first-offense, you're gone) sort of thing. I can't think of another specific reason where it would be okay off the top of my head, but I think there may be one.

I agree with this. I think it's unfair that a guy who unknowingly plagiarizes gets auto-failed for the class.

 

[Zelig]

I agree with this. I think it's unfair that a guy who unknowingly plagiarizes gets auto-failed for the class.

How do you unknowingly plagiarize?

 

[emzie]

How do you unknowingly plagiarize?

Plagiarism isn't just stealing wording but also stealing ideas. Sometimes we forget where we learned something, or that we learned something at all. Take music for example. It's possible for me to write a lead guitar piece or a vocal line that heavily borrows from another's work, whilst believing I've created it. I've merely forgotten where I first heard the piece and have instead remembered the event as if I created it in the first place. That happened to coldplay not too long ago. Paul McCartney was so paranoid he'd stolen the melody to "Yesterday" that he played it for a lot of music executives to see if they recognized it already.

edit: went to verify it was "Yesterday" and wikipedia linked to an article of the phenomenon:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptomnesia

 

[Zelig]

Plagiarism isn't just stealing wording but also stealing ideas.

I know, but I'm having a hard time envisioning an actual scenario for unintentional plagiarism that isn't negligent. Particularly at the undergrad level, you're not doing much original research, so pretty much every idea you put down should have a source anyway.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I agree with this. I think it's unfair that a guy who unknowingly plagiarizes gets auto-failed for the class.

How do you unknowingly plagiarize?

Zelig took the words right off my keyboard.

It might be possible to unknowingly plagiarize if you're not familiar with a lot of the material already available on the subject you're writing about.

Example: A friend of mine entered a short story contest some years ago. She'd always wanted to try writing science fiction and decided to go for it. She was furious and more than a little in tears when the critique came back from the judges that they thought she'd plagiarized most of the story. My friend gave it to me to read, expecting me to agree with her position that she hadn't plagiarized it.

Unfortunately, the story my friend wrote had numerous elements of several fairly well-known science fiction stories. I told her so, but explained it this way: Because my friend hadn't read much science fiction, she was therefore unfamiliar with those stories and had thought up very similar story elements. So she hadn't deliberately plagiarized. But the end result was a story that was far too close to material already published, so her story had to be disqualified. I advised her to read more so she'd be more familiar with what had already been done, and try again.

Even David Gerrold, creator of the Tribbles, got into a mess with unintentional plagiarism. He'd read a Heinlein story quite some time before, and had forgotten it by the time he started writing for Star Trek. His Tribbles were very close in concept to the Martian Flat Cats of Heinlein's novel The Rolling Stones. The producers of Star Trek had to cover their legal behinds by asking Heinlein's permission to allow the episode to be filmed.

However, in academic circles, I would be very suspicious of somebody claiming they didn't know something was plagiarized. If they hadn't thought up the idea all by themselves, somebody else did. And that somebody else needs to be credited. To do anything else is dishonest.

 

[say1988]

Showing up in life is half the battle, so attendenance issues are fairly dockbale (you won't keep your job if you have problems showing up). Lack of participation should be potentially dockable if active participation enhances the classroom experience fr the others in the class. Used books should not be dockable - pirating should be. Cheating should be dockable if you don't get kicked out of the school.

Only if it is an established component of the grading scheme. Otherwise the only way it should harm your grade is that you are at a disadvantage for tests and assignments.

I agree with this. I think it's unfair that a guy who unknowingly plagiarizes gets auto-failed for the class.

Each case should be dealt with individually and the punishment should vary based on the level of the student (i.e. a child in the fourth grade may just have to redo the assignment, while a person in high school may get a zero, and a person in university face academic misconduct charges and further administrative punishment). And intent should be a key element of any considerations.

Overall the school systems in Ontario are WAY to lax about plagiarism. Through high school I only did one assignment with anything resembling proper references. Too many people ran into a brick wall when they started university and didn't realize they needed to properly reference their work and such.

 

[Flying Pig]

I'm not sure that docking marks is an appropriate punishment for moral offences - the mark is supposed to be an indicator of how good that student is at that subject, rather than whether he's a decent human being. Perhaps some sort of on-file indication of the misdemeanour, visible to employers, would be more appropriate? That said, I totally agree that plagarism should be a total write-off of the work - you're supposed to reference everything so 'accidental plagarism' is not an excuse in academia as it might be in music.

 

[downtown]

Should the same rules that you apply to your nine year olds also apply to 19 year olds in college? On the one hand, imposing rules meant for fourth graders seems infantile for college students, but on the other it seems college students should be engaged when appropriate. Is failing to meet a minimal amount of participation an acceptable requirement for college even if the grade for participation would not would fail a student outright if one received a zero?

After thinking about it a little longer, I can see certain college classes where engagement or participation (or attendance) should be part of the grade. I'm thinking of foreign language classes, where in class speaking practice and conversation should be part of the course, or particular discussion-based classes.

For a large, lecture based classroom, I think grading based on attendance or participation is silly.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Overall the school systems in Ontario are WAY to lax about plagiarism. Through high school I only did one assignment with anything resembling proper references. Too many people ran into a brick wall when they started university and didn't realize they needed to properly reference their work and such.

My high school was lax, too. My English teacher was all about "poetry interpretation" and although we did write essays, we didn't have to reference anything.

College was indeed a shock, and when the English instructor I had there realized how many of us were in the same boat, she chucked about a third of the syllabus into the "homework to be assigned" file and set about drilling us in grammar and how to do bibliographies and reference lists. She was extremely strict, and I have been thankful ever since. And once I started typing papers for students, I passed along much of what I'd learned because they hadn't had the grounding in how to do the mechanics of an essay.

One of them phoned me in a panic one night: "Can you check my essay and see if I included a thesis statement?"

Me: "If you put one in, it's there. If you didn't, it's not."

Student: "If I don't have one, can you put one in?"

Me: "No. I will fix minor grammar and spelling mistakes, but I cannot and will not write anything for you that wasn't already there. That's cheating."


It amazed me that they would even ask (it happened way more than once) - how did they know I wouldn't put in complete gibberish? While I was familiar with some of the courses, by no means did I have grounding in all of them.