Where is Poland?

[warpus]

Domen, you are like a driveby Polish history professor.

 

[madviking]

A bunch of random Scottish dudes ended up in the Baltic, not just in Poland.

 

[Traitorfish]

Cross-thread relevance,

Gah who knew? You people are everywhere.

 

[Domen]

ended up in the Baltic, not just in Poland.

Yeah right, Krakow and Lublin are "in the Baltic"... Surely... ^ ^

Plus, 30,000 is more than "a bunch". And 30,000 were just in the Crown of Poland, not even in the entire Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (Scottish people in the Grand Duchy are not included in this number - but in Lithuania the number of Scotsmen was much smaller).

BTW - a fictional character (but based on a real historical figure - like most of main characters of Henryk Sienkiewicz's trilogy) who was ethnic Scottish, became one of Polish national heroes in the 19th century (after the trilogy by Sienkiewicz was published):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hassling-Ketling_of_Elgin

The main character of "The Deluge" - another novel from Sienkiewicz's trilogy - a Lithuanian nobleman Andrzej Kmicic - is also based on a real historical figure of that time (Samuel Kmicic). In general, the main / top 4 heroes of the "Trilogy" by Sienkiewicz are four friends, who were:

- a Polish lieutenant of cavalry (Jan Skrzetuski - based on a real historical person, Mikołaj Skrzetuski)
- a poor Lithuanian nobleman (Andrzej Kmicic - who first betrayed his homeland, but then redeemed his wrongdoings)
- a Polish colonel of dragoons (Michal Wolodyjowski - also based on a real historical person, colonel Jerzy Wołodyjowski)
- a Scottish officer of artillery married to a Polish woman (Hassling-Ketling of Elgin)

=====================================

In Sienkiewicz's trilogy Wołodyjowski and Ketling both died in defence of the castle of Kamieniec Podolski against the Turks.

Kamieniec Podolski (main fortress of south-eastern Poland in the 17th century):


Link to video.

Ketling and Krzysia (played by Polish actress Barbara Brylska) in the 1969 movie "Sir Wolodyjowski":


Link to video.

Ketling and Wołodyjowski commit suicide after capitulation of the fortress:


Link to video.

 

[Domen]

And indeed - Ketling / Heyking (the real, historical one at least) was Scottish, but he moved to Poland from Courland.

Duchy of Courland was a Polish vassal state at that time, though. But it was "in the Baltic region", so here Madviking is partly right.

Major Heyking in real history was the commander of artillery in the besieged fortress of Kamieniec - just like Sienkiewicz's Ketling.

 

[AdamCrock]

I think it would be sensible to relocate Poland to the moon to avoid future confusion

Btw. Did You know that Poles were first on the moon ? Long before Americans set their foot there, Polish sorcerer Mr. Twardowski landed there haha

http://www.englishpractice.b-books.cz/easyreading/easyreading15_cz.php

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_Twardowski

 

[Domen]

Kazik has the best lyrics. Here is this song translated into English poorly by google translate:

His band was formed in 1991, and this is one of their first songs:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazik_Na_Żywo

Their first performance was during the music festival in Sopot, Poland, in 1992. Staszewski then shocked the audience, singing the song 100 000 000, which was based on Lech Wałęsa's presidential campaign unfulfilled promise that all Poles would be given 100 million złotys. In chorus, Staszewski repeats: Wałęsa, give me my 100 million, Wałęsa, give us our 100 million.

Link to video.


Link to video.

======================================

Kazik - 1992 - Piosenka Trepa (in English: Jarheadtard Song / Army bastard Song):


Link to video.

======================================

A much more recent song by Kazik - "Polska jest ważna" ("Poland is important") song:


Link to video.

 

[warpus]

Kazik is definitely an influential part of the Polish music scene and now history. His earlier band Kult is also very good.


Link to video.

And as long as we're sharing Polish music, there's this guy. I learned about him a couple days ago, have always been a huge fan of Reggae music, and.. wow.. his voice! This guy's going places

Song's in English, so we can all listen in


Link to video.

Good to see the Polish Reggae scene maturing. It's very popular there, and it might seem.. weird, to see Polish guys with dreads and whatever, but yeah.. this guy impresses me. When he sings live, it sounds pretty much exactly like this too, so it's not just studio produced goodness - there's raw talent there too.

 

[Chukchi Husky]

There's a Polish band that I listen to called Riverside. They are kind of like a heavier version of Marillion.

 

[Domen]

Yeah - i like Riverside and Marillion too.

And here another Polish rock band (this time melodic rock), Happysad:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happysad

"Made in China" (the actual lyrics is "... not everything is made in China..."):


Link to video.

"Damy radę" ("We can do it"):


Link to video.

 

[AdamCrock]

Kazik ! ^^ I once had the pleasure to swing a bottle of vodka with him in Kolbuszowa ! ^^

Anyways here is one of my favourite songs by Kult. Called "Hey don't You know (You don't have the power over this world)" It is a song made to oppose any form of totalitarian government (mostly communism but nazism too). It has cool footage including communsit party gathering, some pictures taken when the Poland enetered the state of war (during the transformation), pictures from Beijing, some WW2 scenes, some scences from famous Gdansk Shipyard strike (when communists shooted civilians and eventually "trampled" them with tanks and some more.


Link to video.

Here's my translation
"I could see their teeth tore the carcass
I saw them threatening each other with guns
I saw them shaking hands with a smile
I saw them sat on a throne wearing a crown
I saw them trampling on each other
I saw them trampling others with tanks

Hey, don't you know, you have no power over the world
Hey, don't you know, you have no power over the world
(...)
Hey, don't you know the world!

I saw them shaking hands with a smile
I saw them sat on a throne wearing a crown
I saw them trampling on each other
I saw them trampling others with tanks
I could see their teeth tore the carcass
I saw them threatening each other with guns

Hey, don't you know, you have no power over the world
Hey, don't you know, you have no power over the world
(...)
Hey, don't you know the world!"

 

[Domen]

Kazik is generally an anti-mainstream (but in a totally positive meaning of this term) artist.

And he sings about various bad things of this world, not just Polish things, but global things and things in other countries too. Kazik also seriously criticizes political correctness (for example in his "12 groszy" famous song). So if Warpus interprets his songs as somehow anti-Polish, then he is wrong. Kazik in fact is a Polish patriot - of course he sings about things that are bad in Poland and things that should be improved in Poland. But at the same time he said:

"I have an iron principle, that while abroad I don't say anything bad about Poland. We should wash our dirty linen at home." - Kazik

===========================================

"12 groszy":


Link to video.

It is a song made to oppose any form of totalitarian government (mostly communism but nazism too).

Exactly - combating / mocking / criticizing such and similar bad things is the main purpose of Kult's and Kazik's output.

 

[warpus]

Nah, I never said he is anti-Polish, I said that he is critical of Poland and Polish culture, at least in that song... and a lot of others.

It's a common theme in a lot of Polish music, a lot of it being political as well..

Kazik ! ^^ I once had the pleasure to swing a bottle of vodka with him in Kolbuszowa ! ^^

Pics or it didn't happen!

Also, the best happysad song didn't get posted


Link to video.

 

[Domen]

I said that he is critical of Poland and Polish culture, at least in that song... and a lot of others.

Oh come one, in that song he was critical of Post-Soviet, Post-Communist parody of culture, that Poland as one of member-states of the Eastern Bloc was unlucky enough to experience and remnants of which were still intoxicating Poland in the 1990s, rather than of Polish culture...

I explained that his songs of the early 1990s - especially "Jeszcze Polska" - were clearly resembling the dissapointment / frustration of the Polish society during the Transformation period (from Communism to Capitalism) of the 1990s. The dream of capitalism as a paradise painfully perished at that time.

That was partly the fault of the nature of capitalism itself, partly of incompetent political leadership, partly of post-Communist mentality of people, partly of foreign capital taking over Polish economy and Polish previously state-owned companies. Also the way how the Transformation was being carried out was unjust and full of scams / capers - as the result some people got extremely rich (often thanks to anti-competitive practices & corruption), while others lost their lifeworks.

In his song "Jeszcze Polska" which you posted (and poorly translated by Google Translate - which might have caused some misunderstandings) he says:


Link to video.

"(...) O czym chciał powiedzieć pisarz [tej piosenki], pyta pani od polskiego
Chciał pokazać nierówności kapitalizmu wczesnego
To bogaci i biedni, bogaci i biedni, bogaci i biedni
Coście skurwysyny uczyniły z tą krainą (...)"

Which translates:

"(...) What the writer [of this song] had on his mind, asks the school teacher
He wanted to show the inequalities of the early capitalism
These are rich and poor, the rich and the poor, the rich and the poor
What have you mother*ucking sc*ms done to this land (...)"

Parts in [ and ] brackets added / explained by me.

And this is the punchline of the entire song "Jeszcze Polska" by Kazik - this is by far the most important part.

It's a common theme in a lot of Polish music, a lot of it being political as well..

Yes - because a lot of Poles were / have been / are disappointed at some / many / most of our politicians.

BTW - have you heard about the book "Communist Security Services and Lech Wałęsa. A Contribution to a Biography" ???

Authors of the book write that Lech Walesa was a secret collaborator (TW) of the SB (Communist Security Service) in the 1970s.

His pseudonym was "Bolek" at that time. This is a controversial issue, but they gathered strong proofs / documents supporting their thesis.

And when Walesa was the president, he indeed tried to destroy / hide the possible proofs (documents) of his supposed collaboration with SB.

 

[AdamCrock]

Nah, I never said he is anti-Polish, I said that he is critical of Poland and Polish culture, at least in that song... and a lot of others.

It's a common theme in a lot of Polish music, a lot of it being political as well..

Yeah it's very common Although that's the matter of semantics but I would say he is critical about government not Poland and Polish culture A fine example is this song :

"Why You need freedom anyway ?"


Link to video.

The video is not made by Kult (the original song is from 1989 edit : The song not the video I've posted is made by Kult - to avoid misunderstanding ) however is pretty funny The thing about Poland is that it does not matters who leads it or what organization Poland belongs to : it is always mixed with dirt in the end (like by the guy who made a video for this song - he compared soviet union to european union - I don't support the message this video brings but it's pretty funny seeing our politicians mixed with dirt ) .

Well I am critical about my own government but who isn't ? Some wise man once said

"(...)If you’re a patriot, it’s your duty to always question your government anyway, at every turn. A patriot is loyal to his country and his countrymen, not his government."

 

[Domen]

Although that's the matter of semantics but I would say he is critical about government not Poland and Polish culture

Exactly. And this is not the matter of semantics.

It might be the matter of which political option one supports, though.

But I don't think Kazik supports any particular political option (but for sure he strongly doesn't like / hates some political options).

Well I am critical about my own government but who isn't ? Some wise man once said:

"(...) If you’re a patriot, it’s your duty to always question your government anyway, at every turn. A patriot is loyal to his country and his countrymen, not his government."

Exactly.

A patriot wants to improve his country - so when you see how the government ruins it, a normal reaction is being critical about the government.

BTW - whether it is "your" government or not, depends also for whom you voted.

But you are allowed to criticize even those for whom you voted, if they don't fulfil their promises and generally do bad things.

The thing about Poland is that it does not matters who leads it or what organization Poland belongs to : it is always mixed with dirt in the end

Oh, this is a stupid stereotype and inferiority complex. False propaganda that those who wanted the destruction of Poland always spread.

he compared soviet union to european union

Don't be bothered by a bunch of idiotic freaks.

But on the other hand, the opposite political camp also has some similar idiotic freaks.

For example former Justice Minister Ziobro and his Anti-Corruption Campaign was described as involving "Stalinist methods".

"Ziobro's methods = Stalinist methods" is a similarly stupid comparison as "Soviet Union = European Union".

And the death of Barbara Blida being described as "murder". Come on... That woman shot herself when police arrested her, because she was guilty.

Not guilty people would not commit a suicide when police is arresting them for supposed corruption. They would prove their innocence in court instead.

But political enemies of Ziobro exploited her death for a "political show" and presented her as a "martyr of bloody PiS Regime". A corrupt politician who shot herself because she was afraid of public disgrace after convicting judgement, was turned into a "hero" and innocent victim of Ziobro by SLD's propaganda...

I only wonder why so many people actually believed in this fairy tale propaganda presented by SLD.

 

[TheLastOne36]

WTH? Don't log onto CFC for a bit and this thread has 25 pages?

Domen, are you stuck at your parents place for Easter with only a laptop or something?

 

[AdamCrock]

I only wonder why so many people actually believed in this fairy tale propaganda presented by SLD.

Not only SLD , each political club has it's own "fairy tale" (sold to people) and it's own agenda really , not just in Poland but everywhere

 

[AdamCrock]

Okay enough of political mumbo-jambo for now ! , "HANDS UP !" GIVE US ALL UR GOLD ! har ! har !


Link to video.

 

[warpus]

I see a common theme satirizing/criticizing Poland and Polish culture in various Polish artists I listen to.. Some of it deals with communism, some with the economy, some with this, some with that..

And now, one of my favourite Polish rock bands of the last couple years


Link to video.