Where is Poland?

Where is Poland?


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Come where? Where do you live?
The UK. But England in particular. I don't get it. The number of quite obviously better countries Poles, and others, have to cross to get here. And what's so worse about Poland, for goodness sake?

I met an Albanian last week, who came to England with his family in 1997. As a result of the major Albanian riots then. He'd been in the army who'd decided not to shoot on their fellow citizens. As a result they were all declared guilty of desertion and potentially faced the death penalty. He and his family boarded a boat in the Adriatic all set for Holland, but by some mix-up landed in England instead. Unlucky!

Still, I digress. He was seeking political asylum (successfully). Not an economic migrant like all these Polish people. They seem to be literally everywhere! I'm not complaining, mind you. But they're always jabbering away in foreign while I'm studying the price of bananas. Very distracting.
 
And what's so worse about Poland, for goodness sake?

Lower salaries for same kinds of work and same amount of hours worked (for the same kind, the same difficulty, the same time of work - which requires the same qualifications - people in Britain get much more money than people in Poland get). Smaller number of jobs, higher unemployment rate.

In Britain many people are zero-hours contracts workers. But in Poland similar contracts (we call them garbage contracts) are even more widesprad.

Other things which are worse about Poland than Britain:

Much longer queues to free public health care (you have to wait months, sometimes years). Much lower retirement pensions. Etc., etc., etc.

Poland is a younger democracy - there are still many features of a post-Communist country here. The EU is adding its own "modern communism".

Bureaucracy in Poland is terrible - so many formalities and documents when for example you want to start your own business. When you want to build your own house there are also many formalities. In the 1990s many people built without building permits and later their houses were demolished.

Current Polish authorities treat businessmen as potential economic or financial criminals, rather than supporting small private enterprises. Politicians are corrupted - the government which fought against corruption was labelled as nationalistic and anti-European, now so called "liberals" rule (in fact they are closer to corrupted socialists - but even socialists would be ashamed of them, considering that they want to seek for savings in state budget in wallets of retired people). Authorities are not taking care of Polish national capital and of Polish enterprises - no matter state-owned or private-owned ones.

Politicians promise a lot of things before elections, but after elections they do not much of what they promised.

In Britain you have fast trains. In Poland trains travel at a much lower speed and they are sometimes overloaded with passengers.

But I must say that since Euro 2012 the quality of Polish railway transport has improved - at least in my region.

Even more things:

Since Poland has entered the European Union, prices of products are increasing even faster than salaries.

I know that many British people are disappointed with the European Union and the way it goes. The same applies to many Poles.

The number of quite obviously better countries

Poles still need visas to go to the USA - they don't need visas to go to Britain.

Majority of Poles speak English (at least a little bit) - not so many speak other foreign languages, apart from Russian (older generation).

Many people also speak German - and many Poles emigrate to Germany. But they prefer Britain due to historical reasons perhaps.

You know - working for some German Bauer is rather considered a disgrace. You know the German-Polish history in the 20th century.
 
So you are saying if a Polish plumber went to the UK, they could make more money for the same job? Where have I heard that before?

Spoiler :
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So you are saying if a Polish plumber went to the UK, they could make more money for the same job?

Average annual salary for a plumber in Poland - £ 6372 (pre-tax)

Average annual salary for a plumber in the UK - £ 27706 (not sure if also pre-tax?)

Sources:

http://www.ask.com/question/how-much-does-a-plumber-make

http://wynagrodzenia.pl/moja_placa.php?s=266&Hydraulik

http://www.ask.com/question/what-is-the-salary-for-a-plumber

http://www.kursfunta.pl/

Average (median) monthly salary for a plumber in Poland = 2595 PLN brutto (pre-tax) = £ 531. This x 12 months = £ 6372.
 
Well the pipes have to start in toilets somewhere, might as well be London I suppose.
 
Average annual salary for a plumber in Poland - £ 6372 (pre-tax)

Average annual salary for a plumber in the UK - £ 27706 (not sure if also pre-tax?)

Yeah. That'll be pre-tax, I'd be willing to bet on it. That's actually not a bad wage. Slightly above the average.

Of course a self-employed plumber doing 24 hour call-outs, and working as much as he can, might double that. Which any young guy looking to set himself up for the future would do.
 
That's actually not a bad wage. Slightly above the average.

Regarding average wages - average monthly wages (pre-tax) in euros in years 2009 - 2012:

Wlk. Brytania = Great Britain
Polska = Poland

Hiszpania = Spain
Grecja = Greece
Cypr = Cyprus
Irlandia = Ireland
Portugalia = Portugal
Czechy = Czech Republic
Chorwacja = Croatia

http://niewygodne.info.pl/2012_05.htm

srednie_zarobki_w_europie_w_euro.gif


Minimum monthly wage (pre-tax) in Poland in that period (2009 - 2012) was around 1500 PLN (around 345 euros).

Plus London is sort of the centre of the Polish universe.

Working in London for 2 months = people earn enough to live in Poland for the remaining 10 months.

If they stay there for several years, they come back with a lot of money.
 
You've got a point. I'd expect the median to be much lower than the average, though. And without any indication of the inequitability of the particular countries, it still isn't going to tell you much.
 
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Well, Wlk Brytania isn't much ahead of Cypress and Greece.

If I was Polish, and wasn't happy in Poland, where the girls are so pretty, the vodka so strong, and....such, I'd go to Norway, Denmark, and at least 10 other countries before I tried Wlk Brytania, where the girls are not so hot, the beer is warm, and... other things.
 
Hm, indeed. The average salary in Greece is nowhere near 2300 euros per month... It wasn't close to it even before the crisis (pre 2008). Last 8 hour-5 days-a-week job i checked to apply for offered around 950 euros per month, and i am sure this is rare now for clerk-level jobs.
 
Well, Wlk Brytania isn't much ahead of Cypress and Greece.

Greece was artificially increasing salaries and wasting money, which led to present day crisis in Greece.

In Greece workers used to receive extra pays even for such things like washing their hands at the workplace (sic!).

Now they are whinning about their crisis, how the European Union "cheated them".

The Greeks were cheating themselves for many years - they were living beyond their means and not fighting against corruption.

I saw an old Greek woman in TV complaining that her retirement pension has decreased to "only" 900 euros after the crisis.

In Poland average retirement pension is 360 euros (post-tax this time). And Greece wants Poland to send them financial help! This is sick. We in Poland are laughing at Greeks how they complain about their crisis - Greek "crisis" is still much better than Polish "prosperity". Polish government keeps babbling about the economic growth, that Poland "resisted the crisis", Poland is a "Green Island", etc. But the reality is that crisis period elsewhere is better than prosperity period in Poland.
 
Germans confirm that lazy Greeks were wasting money and now complain that Germany "cheated" them.

At least in this one thing Poles and Germans absolutely agree.

Now it is your turn to go clean British toilets, fellow Greeks.
Just how dirty do you think British toilets are?

And is there no other work? Is that the real basis of the world economy? Dirty British toilets?

Hang on. I'll be back in a moment. I've just got to go stimulate the economy a bit.
 
Polish lorry drivers, bus drivers, plumbers, builders, yes.

Polish toilet cleaners? Not so much. There's a few foreigners cleaning cars just down the road. But I think they're Latvians.
 
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