Why are antiracists so... racist?

[luiz]

Compared to which benign foreign policies from which parts of the world ?
Because if all foreign policies in the same context have the same norms, then how can the Western ones be comparatively "cruel" ?

No it doesn't mean it isn't cruel.
What it DOES mean though, is an attempt to single out a specific group to put the blame on them as if they were different while everyone else do the same. It's just complete dishonesty, manipulation and double standards.

Clearly though if China or Pakistan or whatever non-Western country has a "cruel" foreign policy that's only because they were forced to cruelty and corrupted by the evil West.

Before the evil white men started bossing people around, all other corners of the world were bastions of liberty, peace and morality. They pretty much held hands all day and sang Kumbaya. The Mongol atrocities, Barbary slavery, ottoman imperialism, Japanese colonialism... All the fault of the west, and the US in particular.

 

[Ryika]

The rest of the world is clearly inhabited by barbarians, you can't expect them to act civilized. It's like punishing children for not being moral, even though nobody ever taught them how to be that.

Only the West can be held accountable for its moral failings.

 

[metalhead]

Can any of the 3 of you point to where someone said that only the West is cruel, or that only Western countries are responsible for their moral failings? It feels like you're all doing that thing you always do, where you strawman/reducto ad absurdum every post that even hints at content you disagree with rather than actually respond to what anyone said. I have to tell you, the fact that you do this in every argument tends to invalidate your points of view. I can point out that the norms of Western foreign policy are cruel without that also exonerating other nations' cruelty. So can Lexicus, or anyone else who wishes to.

There are no shortage of voices across the political spectrum who are willing to call out China or Russia or Saudi Arabia for their abhorrent foreign policies/intervention. I shouldn't have to couch every criticism of the U.S. or France with paragraphs about how much everyone else sucks, too. The whataboutism really grows tiresome. We should expect our countries to lead the world, not submit to cruelty and mass killing just because everyone else is doing it.

 

[luiz]

Can any of the 3 of you point to where someone said that only the West is cruel, or the only region responsible for its moral failings? It feels like you're all doing that thing you always do, where you strawman/reducto ad absurdum every post that even hints at content you disagree with rather than actually respond to what anyone said. I have to tell you, the fact that you do this in every argument tends to invalidate your points of view. I can point out that the norms of Western foreign policy are cruel without that also exonerating other nations' cruelty. So can Lexicus, or anyone else who wishes to.

So why are you saying specifically that the West is cruel, if indeed it's no different than anyone else? What's the insight?

If someone said stuff like "black people commit murder" or "black people steal" without qualification, and without noting that all other colors of people also do the same, he would be rightly called a racist. When someone says without qualification that "Western foreign policy is cruel", I think that person is biased (in a charitable interpretation).

 

[Akka]

Can any of the 3 of you point to where someone said that only the West is cruel, or that only Western countries are responsible for their moral failings?

=>

Compared to which benign foreign policies from which parts of the world ?
Because if all foreign policies in the same context have the same norms, then how can the Western ones be comparatively "cruel" ?

Reading is hard.

It feels like you're all doing that thing you always do, where you strawman/reducto ad absurdum every post that even hints at content you disagree with rather than actually respond to what anyone said.

That's some heavy irony here. Someone is projecting.

 

[Senethro]

He isn't. Saying that Western foreign policy is cruel is an easy statement to back up, and unfortunately something doesn't need to be unusual to be cruel.

 

[Ryika]

Can any of the 3 of you point to where someone said that only the West is cruel, or that only Western countries are responsible for their moral failings?

Assuming I'm one of the three: No, I can't, and that's certainly not my position, because I don't think that anybody said that in this thread, quite the opposite. I understand very well that the discussion was about the Western Countries being "cruel too". Which I actually very much agree with, if we try to apply moral standards that we apply to men to the state as an entity, is always looks like a monster. States do things that are horrendous, even the western ones.

Still, go back to page 2 and look at how the discussion suddenly changes, as Lexicus finds a way to say something negative about the west, Senethro joins in, and then suddenly it's all about racism in the west. That "look at the West!"-attitude that people were making fun of. Because it's not about that whataboutism that you mentioned, it's about actively steering a discussion away from the problem that was being discussed, and into a discussion about the west, and how people shouldn't discuss that other issue, because "the west isn't any better".

 

[Senethro]

I didn't equate, I compared, and tried to qualify based on time and scale.

 

[plarq]

Of course, talking bad about US and NATO blah blah blah then defend Pol Pot's massacres, would expose one's own bias.

However, there would be very few anti-West propaganda without reverting to defend those inhumane regimes. Environmentalists and some social activists do so without defending dictators, but their type of protests just taste like "You are protesting for the sake of protest, you just want to show off that you care about the world while others don't."

 

[Hygro]

That's some heavy irony here. Someone is projecting.

Just because you recognize it in others doesn't mean you're adept in reading yourself.

 

[JollyRoger]

That's some heavy irony here. Someone is projecting.

QFT

 

[Cutlass]

Troll OP is troll.

 

[Akka]

Just because you recognize it in others doesn't mean you're adept in reading yourself.

Well at least it's admitting that he does it and I do notice it.
I obviously disagree with the charge of strawman. Though I do heavily tend to attempt to show people when I feel there is a problem with a reasoning they hold (as I have said pretty frequently, I'm more irritated by bad reasoning than by bad premises), and it does include reductio ad absurdum.
But RaA IS a valid logical argument, so I don't really see why I should feel ashamed to use it.

 

[JollyRoger]

 

[Traitorfish]

I want your opinion. Time and again I met people - students, phd students,
postdocs - who called themselves "antiracist" & proceeded to lay the blame
of virtually all wars, all starvation, all injustice in the world solely and squarely
on the western world

I mean, come on. We have ethnic cleanings, slave markets, terror attacks,
stabbings, cars that drive into pedestrians. It is simply impossible to
overlook this actual, true racism And it is simply impossible to overlook
that these so called "antiracists" work very hard, every single day, to ignore &
overlook it.

Now, I want your opinion. Why do they have such an obviously discriminatory
world view? Why do they take such pains to ignore actual, true racism? Or
maybe you honestly think that the western world/white people are the greatest
problem in the world?

So I'm just going to ignore the substance of this post, such as it is, because what's really bothering me is, has anyone explained to you that you don't need to add your own line breaks?

You don't need to hit return when you reach the end of the window. The forum will sort all that out for you.

It's not a type-writer.

 

[Synobun]

Moderator Action: Please do not derail threads in order to judge someone's style of writing.

 

[caketastydelish]

Then you aren't paying enough attention. France regularly engages in murderous military interventions in its former African colonies; Germany has openly engaged in the pillaging of Southern Europe under the cover of the EU and EMU treaties; Canada is selling arms to countries like Saudi Arabia...

"murderous military interventions in its former African colonies." I never said that everyone is perfect except for America. Rather, I'm saying that America is the only country left doing serious damage on the world stage. There will always be small conflicts among others. What are the total death counts of these "murderous military interventions in its former African colonies"? How would they compare to what America has done in Iraq, for example?

"Germany has openly engaged in the pillaging of Southern Europe..." Many EU countries, such as Greece, would be bankrupt were it not for Germany. And besides, taking advantage of a few regional countries is nothing remotely like what the United States is doing. Germany getting a fix unfair deals in Southern Europe in nothing remotely like the Hitler time. America, however, is like that. Germany is also a bastion of civil rights and science and tolerance. Much more than the United States, actually. "Canada is selling arms to countries like Saudi Arabia" So what? Why would I even have to defend that? Canada has the right to do that. You don't like it? Too bad.

 

[Cutlass]

So in what manner are anti-racists racists? I never got that part.

 

[Akka]

So in what manner are anti-racists racists? I never got that part.

I'm sure you're totally genuine here and not at all being coy and playing dumb.

 

[Cutlass]

I'm sure you're totally genuine here and not at all being coy and playing dumb.

I don't know WTH you're talking about. What I know is that it's a long standing convention among racists to claim that anyone who isn't a racist is the real racist.

It's part and parcel of the nature of conservatism to be fundamentally opposed to the concept that people are responsible for their own actions.

"Wah WAH WAHHH! You won't let me be a racist so you must be a racist!!!"