Why so silent?

[thecrazyscot]

For Jews, Islam creates an existential crisis, and I don't mean in a physical or violent way.

What I mean is, Jewish religious identity is tied up in them being chosen and set apart by God as a holy nation, with divine revelation coming through the Jewish prophets.

Islam states that final revelation came to Muhammad. As a Gentile, this is unthinkable in Judaism as it means that God has "chosen" another people, and that Jews are no longer a people set apart.

 

[JollyRoger]

Why has the thread starter been so silent for the rest of the thread?

 

[Borachio]

That's the usual m.o., OK?

 

[Leonel]

That's the usual m.o., OK?

Pretty cowardly in my honest opinion. In fact, I'll just outright say it's plain cowardly because I'm pretty sure there are Muslim protests against ISIS around the world but either the original poster hasn't found any articles on it or refuses to look at articles on it.

 

[Antilogic]

Will the real CH please stand up?

 

[Tahuti]

For Jews, Islam creates an existential crisis, and I don't mean in a physical or violent way.

What I mean is, Jewish religious identity is tied up in them being chosen and set apart by God as a holy nation, with divine revelation coming through the Jewish prophets.

Islam states that final revelation came to Muhammad. As a Gentile, this is unthinkable in Judaism as it means that God has "chosen" another people, and that Jews are no longer a people set apart.

The Jewish answer is to largely ignore Islam, as well as Christianity. Contrary to common misconceptions, the covenant between god and the Jews also means that Jews have a burden to be an example to mankind. Being 'chosen' is not just a set of privileges in this case.

 

[thecrazyscot]

True I was merely trying to point out that there are indeed some fundamental differences between the two.

 

[warpus]

The Jews are trying to set an example by not eating bacon and stealing other people's land? They're not exactly going to find many followers with those tactics...

 

[thecrazyscot]

I've always wondered how far back people think we should go in determining who has the "right" to land.

 

[Antilogic]

I've always wondered how far back people think we should go in determining who has the "right" to land.

Like, far enough back for the Israeli claims on brown people's lands, but not so far back we have to give up large chunks of the United States to Amerindian tribes. #DoubleStandard #DefinitelyNotRasist

Wait.

 

[Borachio]

I've always wondered how far back people think we should go in determining who has the "right" to land.

That's why most serious thinkers* conclude that property is theft. Not that the conclusion gets us anywhere, though.

*By which I mean: lunatics, charlatans, and shysters.

 

[Tahuti]

The Jews are trying to set an example by not eating bacon

http://www.utne.com/politics/bringing-home-the-bacon-in-israel.aspx

and stealing other people's land?

It is a lot more complicated than that. But it will be waste of time to explain it to people who think they are hip and cool by supporting anti-semitic Jews (that's essentially what Palestinians are).

 

[warpus]

I've always wondered how far back people think we should go in determining who has the "right" to land.

I'm talking about the settlers - so anywhere between yesterday and 5-10 years.

 

[thecrazyscot]

Like, far enough back for the Israeli claims on brown people's lands, but not so far back we have to give up large chunks of the United States to Amerindian tribes. #DoubleStandard #DefinitelyNotRasist

Wait.

Your sarcasm aside, my question was in all seriousness and not specific to Israel. Very few people live in land that was always "theirs", but has been resettled through migration, forced resettlement, conquering, or whatever else you can think up.

I'm talking about the settlers - so anywhere between yesterday and 5-10 years.

Why the arbitrary number? Why not 20 years? 50? 100? Why have a time limit at all? After all, with a time limit, if you wait long enough the land is now "yours" by "right".

 

[Borachio]

The World Rabbinical Council announced last week that Jews can now indulge in bacon, ham, and other porcine delights [deleted]. The organization also began a new holiday: Hamover.

http://www.utne.com/mind-and-body/noshing-on-kosher-pork.aspx

 

[Farm Boy]

Why the arbitrary number? Why not 20 years? 50? 100? Why have a time limit at all? After all, with a time limit, if you wait long enough the land is now "yours" by "right".

If the idea is to stop displacing people who have themselves committed no forced displacement of others, when you go back far enough you simply start creating a new justification for displacing people who have themselves committed no forced displacement of others.

 

[Borachio]

What about squatters' rights?

How long is a person allowed to leave his land vacant before he can no longer evict any opportunistic squatters?

 

[jackelgull]

I go by the definition that once the next generation as been born and raised in that land their fathers stole, it belongs to them.

 

[Tahuti]

WARNING: Rambling follows, proceed with caution!

It's really weird that people automatically assume that Jewish settlers are evil racists who steal land. Some of them are, yet it is quite telling how people who pride themselves on their open mindedness and supposed lack of ethnic prejudice automatically assume that all atheists and rabbinical Jews who live in West Bank stole land.

Fact is, I was Pro-Palestinian myself. And I ended up despising those activists, because managed to see them for what they are: Guillable group-thinking idiots. Simply because the Palestinians are the weaker side and non-white, doesn't mean they are automatically the side you should support. A lot of their suffering can be directly attributed to their own foolish decisions, as cruel as it may sound, and they could make significant strides in improving their lot by looking in the mirror first before blaming the Israelis for every hardship they suffer.

It should be rather obvious that - even if you disagree with Israel - the Palestinians are NOT the kind of people who deserve to be emulated. While Israel develops electric cars, improves medicine and produces microchips, all the Palestinians do is nothing but committing terrorist attacks. I don't care whether more Palestinians than Israelis die in this conflict, and in fact, the Palestinian reliance on quantity as opposed to quality in their reasoning, might very well accentuate the very feebleness of their ideas, culture and role in the world stage. If you are looking for any reason why I always had that obsession with Israel despite I do not live there, here you have it.

 

[Borachio]

Imagine an entire people who have been forcefully driven from their land and "carried off into captivity". A bunch of squatters move in when the people who drove the first lot off lose interest.

A bit later, the first lot manage to get free and then return to their original land. Only to find the squatters there!

What should they do?
---------------------------
But wait. What's this? Palestinians are "non-white"? What does that even mean?