[RD] Why y'all always trying to defend Nazis?

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It is not sensible per se, however, it would become sensible if they are subjected to collective racism. Say, segregation applies to both African-American and African immigrants due to their skin color, or English only movement targeting all Spanish speaking community.
If that's the argument, then that also applies to the white identity movements, as the people who speak out against "whiteness" attack all people who "practice whiteness", not just a certain group. So they would have a collective struggle that connects them, not one that really manifests physically at the moment, but the attack can certainly be felt by any white person that pays attention.

I find the argument pretty weak.
 
It is not sensible per se, however, it would become sensible if they are subjected to collective racism. Say, segregation applies to both African-American and African immigrants due to their skin color, or English only movement targeting all Spanish speaking community.
That does not unite "blacks", though, it would unite people who face discrimination. In most countries this is not necessarily mostly black people.

Clearly, if there's no such thing as an international white community, there's no such thing as an international black community either. And I've long argued both points.
 
That does not unite "blacks", though, it would unite people who face discrimination. In most countries this is not necessarily mostly black people.

Clearly, if there's no such thing as an international white community, there's no such thing as an international black community either. And I've long argued both points.

I think it's because people naturally empathize with victims, and then look for solidarity against an aggressor. Muslims notice when the Ummah is abused. Westerners notice when non-Westerners abuse Westerners. People from Africa notice that European descendents abused their power imbalance.

Now, the American South bungled the idea that all people are equal. This is part of the reason that they are doing so much worse that other European cultures with integration (and also makes Southern 'white pride' so amusing ... along the one dimension they measure things, they're the worst performers)

There aren't really international communities of these cohorts. Minor and temporary alliances based on similarities.

Now, I'd rather we team up with fellow humans against malaria or HIV. I might even pull the speciest card against cancer, our common enemy.
 
Look at the rhetoric of BLM London or whatever, and it's copy+paste from the US. They even copy the mannerisms stereotypical of black Americans (it's blackface if you think about it).
Can't really be bothered to look, and since you seem the expert on how Black Lives Matter activists in London act and how the Black British community acts, perhaps you can enlighten me.

And yeah, it was nonsense in the 60's too. Black Americans and Africans have nothing to do with each other, not anymore than some redneck in Texas has to do with a modern German or Czech.
Whether or not you view it as nonsense, it was not viewed as nonsense at the time. There was a strong connection between achieving equality at home and achieving equality abroad through the ending of European colonial control. For blacks in America, it was representative of deep intellectual hypocrisy for the US government to be championing the independence of former African colonies, talking about the importance of respect for individual rights and self-determination and democracy, and then to stand idly by while peaceful protestors got attacked by police dogs and water cannons were turned on children. Freedom at home, freedom abroad.
https://www.amazon.com/Proudly-Can-Africans-Americans-1935-1961/dp/0807849979

I mean, there is a pretty famous anecdote of Richard Nixon visiting Ghana in 1957 to commemorate Ghana's independence. Nixon asked a man "How does it feel to be free?" and the man responded "Sir, I am not free, I live in Alabama".

The 50s and 60s saw internationalism in black/African/African-American activism. Cribbing a few phrases does not a coherent international movement make.
 
Can't really be bothered to look, and since you seem the expert on how Black Lives Matter activists in London act and how the Black British community acts, perhaps you can enlighten me.
Naturally, a reactionary Brazillian lumpenbourgeois is intimately familiar with the youth culture of working class African and Afro-Caribbean London.
 
"Non people of colour"- now there's an awkward phrase to parse- certainly exist as a group. But I don't think they exist as the sort of group you imagine. There's no specifically "white" shared history of culture, not even on America, and certainly not on a global scale. The only common bond is white supremacy, and I take no particular pride in the fact that some of history's biggest bastards happened to share my deficiency in melanin.
See, you're doing it again. "History's biggest bastards" -- you seem to be not just interested in removing racism, but actively putting down White people as a group. You've could have just as easily said "History's greatest inventors" or "History's greatest thinkers" or "History's greatest civilization builders" but instead you opted for the glass half-empty approach. I choose to take the glass half-full approach, because I believe that is a much healthier way to view oneself.

Whiteness, as a positive identity, is fundamentally reactionary. It is defined by investment in and enthusiasm for white supremacy, and white supremacy serves only to keep the working class divided and powerless. It's a cross-class identity, one which spuriously suggests that workers have more in common with white bosses than with black and brown workers- and there's no greater proof of that than Trump-boosters like yourself presenting a property mogul, the very image of a bourgeois parasite, as the saviour of the white working class.
And I'm the paranoid one?

Yes, I've never denied that my views are reactionary. A reaction is absolutely necessary at this point in time, so I don't see what's so negative about that. What if I told you white identity wasn't some malicious conspiracy, but rather just a way to feel good about oneself? A reaction to all of the white-shaming that goes on in the modern Western world? An innocent desire to be around people that are similar to you?

What would it take to convince you that there is no conspiracy?

You aren't asking me to identify myself as "European", though, you're asking me to identify myself as "white". "Europe" is a region, one arbitrary set of lines drawn on the map, it doesn't carry any exclusive loyalties. "White" does. A person is white or they are not-white, at least according to people like you. You're in or you're out. It's a monolith, and I know better than to trust monoliths.
Mate it's literally the same thing. Most people understand "White" to mean "European". Your distinction also makes no sense. One is also either "European" or "not European". That's fundamental to any sort of categorization.

But you hit onto something when you say that people have a natural tendency to categorise the world around them. That is true. But that tendency is to create categories in accordance with the utility and significance of the thing being categorised for humans. Humans distinguished dogs and wolves, because that mattered, and they distinguished hunting dogs from herding dogs, because that mattered, but did not clearly distinguish Eurasian wolves from a Mongolian wolf because what difference did it make? Whales for centuries considered fish, because the characteristics of whales that were significant to human observers identified them with fish rather than with mammals. To highlight things such as their lack of gills or their skeletal structure is academic, comes from a different outlook, in which whales carry a different set of significances.

So my question is, what is the utility and significance of "white people"?
Well, nowadays, it seems to be useful as a scapegoat for SJWs. As a group to blame for the problems of the poor innocent "people of color". And it seems that the anti-White hostility is only getting worse the more "diversity" we are "culturally enriched" with. Just a few days ago the ACLU tweeted a photo with a blonde haired, white skinned baby, and were promptly accused of white supremacy. And then ACLU apologized! It seems that white people themselves are becoming synonymous with white supremacy. http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/23/aclu-apologizes-for-tweeting-photo-of-white-baby-with-u-s-flag/

The American Civil Liberties Union is doing damage control after Twitter leftists denounced the group for sharing a picture of a white baby holding an American flag.

In a tweet sent Wednesday afternoon, the ACLU captioned a photo of a blonde-haired Caucasian child wearing a free speech onesie and waving a flag, “This is the future that ACLU members want.”

I mean we are reaching peak levels of anti-White hysteria. All over the country people are desecrating historical monuments to White people. They are digging up the graves of Confederate soldiers. These are people's ancestors that fought and died at war! How much more disrespectful can you get?

A small Ohio town that exhumed the bodies of Confederate soldiers and discarded their remains in a dirty lake has inspired Ohio Governor John Kasich to enact legislation allowing other cemeteries to do the same. He signed an executive order this morning waiving the protections granted to the graves and memorials of Confederate veterans in the state.

...

In Delaware, Ohio, where the controversial “#exhumeconfederates” grave digging movement started last week when government officials sanctioned the exhumation of Confederate soldiers, it’s been reported that the skeletal remains of several bodies were used as props in public sex acts performed by a group of ANTIFA protesters camping on the property.

So, what are positive uses of "white people"? A sense of tribal belonging. A sense of family. A sense of a shared European heritage. I care that there are other people that look like me. I don't want to be the only white guy around. I don't want to be blamed for stuff I had nothing to do with because of my race. I don't want my daughter being taught that she has "white privilege" in school while other kids are taught they are "oppressed" by her. I don't want her to grow up in a country where she is a hated minority, a country that her ancestors built.

In your own country it might not be this bad yet, but you are fast becoming a minority too. Maybe you tell yourself you don't care if Britain becomes an Islamic country, but I think deep down you know that it wouldn't be the same. So what are you going to do about that? Are you going to stand by and let it happen because you're afraid to be labelled "Xenophobic", or are you going to stand up and defend your culture and way of life? The clock is ticking fast, you're already down to two-thirds of the babies.

Yes, I think that stamps are designed by committees of well-meaning manager-types, and do not reflect the nuances of Latin American identities.
My point is that they would not have used "European" instead of "Hispanic" because that would be considered "offensive". This is despite the fact that Hispanics come from a variety of backgrounds just like European Americans. There is a clear double standard at play, even as Hispanics become the majority in this country.

Where in Europe do you think Scotland is, can I check?
Ah. So you're only allowed to be racist against your own people?

Honestly, I tend to feel really uncomfortable in any groups that is more than 80% homogeneous, whether racially, politically, culturally, etc. That just seems unnatural. Groupthink is dangerous.
The fact that 99.9% of humans for 99.9% of history lived this way seems to suggest that it is entirely natural. The fact that despite our best efforts at forcing integration, people still live in relatively segregated neighborhoods. Even Blacks prefer to live amongst themselves, and neighborhoods routinely flip from Black to Hispanic. Inner city gangs, prisoners, kids at school lunch all segregate based on race. In every multi-racial societies there exists racial tension.

Cultures are always dynamic, never stagnant. Trying to preserve any specific cultural heritage only reduces it to a sick parody of itself.
There is a clear middle ground. What happened in America up until the 1960s was a series of gradual cultural changes. There was a period of heavy immigration around the turn of the 20th century, but people realized that it needed to be shut down to preserve their own culture and way of life and so they did. What is happening today not just in America, but almost all European countries, is total cultural and ethnic replacement. There's nothing virtuous about that.
 
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I mean we are reaching peak levels of anti-White hysteria. All over the country people are desecrating historical monuments to White people. They are digging up the graves of Confederate soldiers. These are people's ancestors that fought and died at war! How much more disrespectful can you get?

lol is anyone going to tell him

Moderator Action: This reply, as well as your "oh dear" reply to Valessa, are both unacceptable. They are spam and attempts at trolling, two things that CFC has rules against. Please do a better job of expressing your disagreement. - Vincour
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Without specifying the definition of race that you are using, the likelihood is that you are mixing up groups based on biological relatedness and socio-cultural labels based on peoples phenotypes.

Race is not as well defined, but its among the first differences two strangers will identify upon meeting. Skin color, anatomical features, etc, constitute a category closely related to ethnicity but broader, more inclusive.
 
Race is not as well defined, but its among the first differences two strangers will identify upon meeting. Skin color, anatomical features, etc, constitute a category closely related to ethnicity but broader, more inclusive.

WHICH definition of race though? These statements are true or false depending.
 
why?

edit: are there any groups between 'humanity' and 'ethnicity'?

Thats where I put race, but here's the dictionary definition

  1. : a breeding stock of animals

  2. 2a : a family, tribe, people, or nation belonging to the same stockb : a class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics

  3. 3a : an actually or potentially interbreeding group within a species; also : a taxonomic category (such as a subspecies) representing such a groupb : breedc : a category of humankind that shares certain distinctive physical traits
 
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Ok so
1 doesn't apply
2a is potentially applicable, but doesn't match reality. The most familiar system of race categorization doesn't group ethnicities by relatedness.
2b is potentially applicable, but is a non-biological relatedness definition so it doesn't sit with family etc.
3a is useful for discussing animals, not applicable here.
3b is not applicable
3c is potentially applicable, but is a non-biological relatedness definition so it doesn't sit with family etc.

So what definition are you using?
 
a subset of humanity larger than an ethnicity based on biological considerations

Abraham fathered many nations, so the story goes... We dont know how many kids he had, but 12 sons became 12 tribes. These tribes were bolstered of course by other members of both the clan and broader population, but eventually they became an 'ethnicity' - an ethnic subset of the semitic race from which Abraham came. And they in turn are part of a larger race, the caucasoid race.
 
@civver_764

Did you know that long ago, North America was not a white majority? In fact there was an entirely other race of people who lived here. Are you opposed to colonialism? Do you wish white people had never become the majority in North America? Because otherwise claiming that white people deserve to maintain their majority in North America makes no sense.

In fact, this historical fact disarms the entire argument. Say that the apocalyptic influx of Muslims and Latinos does happen and the United States in thrust into a dystopia of diversity. Would you then say, "fair game. Now they own this country and deserve to maintain their majority." Or would you hark back to the glory days of white majority?

Because if your belief is that whoever is the "majority race" of a region deserves to maintain that majority, then you must be the world's greatest native peoples activist who supports the return of federal lands to native tribes and is highly critical of the foundations of nation-states like the US, Canada, Brazil, Australia, and New Zealand.

Otherwise this argument is hypocritical to the point of utter dismissal on purely logical grounds, before even considering the racist implications.
 
What does "deserve" even mean in that context? The actual question is: Do you have the ability to do it? The Native Americans clearly didn't. "White Americans" on the other hand probably do if they want to.

What really disarms the argument is that even most White Americans don't care about being the majority. Even the current push towards a White Identity movement is mostly a reaction to the feeling of being under attack, and not some genuine love for White Americans as a group, and it also has a very specific definition of "White Identity" that doesn't even include most White Americans. And your average non-redneck white american would probably prefer to live among Hispanics who share his values, than among Whites who have repulsive ideas.
 
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Hey, progress! Those who defend Nazis have actually answered the question.

I'm gauging that the answer seems to be "because of free speech, and because violence is bad."

As to the former: Do you then admit to valuing freedom of speech and "diversity of thought" over peoples' lives? The question here is: which do you guys value more, the abstract concept of free speech or the very real and pressing matter of peoples' rights to live?

I've thought along these lines as well, but I decided to go another route. I started a parallel thread on the creation of a de-militarized fascist state. The point was to examine how sincerely moderates believe that fascists could remain peaceful. Of course, that's not a question they're willing to tackle. There's also the other matter of freedom of speech being just one of the rights that people have, another being the right to self-determination. Apparently, no one really thinks fascists should be able to carve out a state of their own in any meaningful way peacefully, even if it's a de-militarized one.

Moderates are just blowing hot air or, as some call it, virtue-signalling on this matter.
 
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