would jesus have joined the army?

[classical_hero]

True, they're not being rounded up by the state, just singled out by the state as being unfit parents and unfit to be married, and denied the same rights as others for one simple reason- their sexual preference, which is something they cannot change and shouldn't be asked to change.

It's not Nazi-level injustice. But it doesn't have to be, to still be wrong.

The weird thing about the left is that sexual preference isn't hard coded and yet it is never possible to change and yet gender is hard coded and yet you are free to choose the gender you want.

 

[JollyRoger]

8 in so many years is hardly 'parading'.

Given your respect for Hollywood quotes:

"You can't get a little bit pregnant, son" - Lou Mannheim to Bud Fox in Wall Street

 

[Arakhor]

The weird thing about the left is that sexual preference isn't hard coded and yet it is never possible to change and yet gender is hard coded and yet you are free to choose the gender you want.

That would be weird if it were true. Quite what that has to do with this vague concept known as "the left" is anyone's business.

 

[JollyRoger]

What is this 97% nonsense? When gay marriage hits a referendum, it is getting close to 50% pro-gay marriage these days.

 

[Traitorfish]

The weird thing about the left is that sexual preference isn't hard coded and yet it is never possible to change and yet gender is hard coded and yet you are free to choose the gender you want.

...What on earth are you talking about?

 

[JollyRoger]

I think he is asking us if we think his dress makes his butt look big.

 

[peter grimes]

The weird thing about the left is that sexual preference isn't hard coded and yet it is never possible to change and yet gender is hard coded and yet you are free to choose the gender you want.

What do you mean by 'hard-coded'? Do you mean genes and genetics?

There are some very rare cases where a person with XX will be compelled to identify as a man, or XY will feel to be a woman. In some cases this is due to a gender assignment surgery at birth, where the doctor thinks the sex is ambiguous and uses a scalpel to 'help' the child.

But even if millions of people were seeking gender reassignment surgery today what's the problem? People choose their religion far more often, but nobody gets too worked up about that.

 

[El_Machinae]

You? Aren't affected by it in the slightest. Instead you've made it your personal quest to revisit the debate. Although I really don't get this, fine. But then don't complain about the debate!

Yes he is! He had a solid job in the "don't ask don't tell" sector, where he helped people fill out legal forms and basically helped people cut red tape to make their lives better.

Now, with all the gay rights on the rise, his job would've transformed into having to help them do paperwork to make their lives better to get access to benefits and rights that he could just take for granted. Thank god for taxpayer-funded retirement! It came just in time to leave one of the few jobs in the previously DADT workforce that would actually have to deal with teh gays asking for help filling out forms.

 

[MobBoss]

Yes he is! He had a solid job in the "don't ask don't tell" sector, where he helped people fill out legal forms and basically helped people cut red tape to make their lives better.

Now, with all the gay rights on the rise, his job would've transformed into having to help them do paperwork to make their lives better to get access to benefits and rights that he could just take for granted. Thank god for taxpayer-funded retirement! It came just in time to leave one of the few jobs in the previously DADT workforce that would actually have to deal with teh gays asking for help filling out forms.

Well, to be accurate, those would be recruiters or personnel specialists. I'm on the other end of the process.

And if I havent said it yet; thanks for helping to fund my retirement!

 

[madviking]

A few verses about war and peace have been quoted, namely Matthew 10:34 ("I came not to send peace, but a sword") and Matthew 26:52 ("for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword").

He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you.

These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace.

The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ.

It doesn't seem to me that the Bible leans obviously either way. But from what I've read, many of the 'violent' passages are actually metaphorical for spiritual war (i.e. you need to fight for your right to be Christian). So, given that, I'd say that the Bible tries to promote peace insofar as Christians are free to worship and exist.

 

[Askthepizzaguy]

There is no federal proscription that says gays are unfit parents. Nor unfit to be married (provided they marry someone of the opposite sex - something a good many have indeed done).

This is not what they're asking to do. They're asking to marry people they're attracted to, and you're aware of that. To say they're-

Nor denied the same rights as others.

Is farcical. It's equivalent to separate but equal, blacks can marry blacks, whites can marry whites, and then shrugging and saying what's the problem?

Gay men don't want to marry women. Gay women don't want to marry men. Just because they're allowed to, does not mean they are given fair and equal treatment under the law, nor does it mean they have nothing to complain about.

On a personal level, I feel you are wrong about the changing of sexual preference.

Doesn't matter if I were.

My belief is humans are so supremely adaptable; they can pretty much convince themselves of anything. And fwiw, there are indeed those that have changed their sexuality by concious choice. Thus the question is not can it be done (since it can) but should it be done. And my answer might surprise you: I dont think so. Be gay all you want. Engage in all the relationships you want. Just dont ask the other 97% of us to change the definition of a single word. Is that too much to ask?

I'm afraid the definitions of words change constantly, for one, and secondly, yes, it is too much to ask to treat an entire class of people unfairly because the thought of their relationships being treated equally and called the same thing makes other folks feel icky.

That's the long and the short of it. It's not equal in your mind, and that's the only reason to oppose it.

I won't go as far as to say you're a hateful person because of the views you hold; quite the contrary. At one point in my life, I held the same views. I think you're fighting for what you think is right.

I just feel it's not even close to being right.

 

[MobBoss]

This is not what they're asking to do. They're asking to marry people they're attracted to, and you're aware of that. To say they're-

Uhm...they CAN 'marry' the person they are attracted to...what they want is recognition of it by the government, and commensurately approval by the people of the USA. There is not a single law in the USA preventing a homosexual couple exchanging rings, having a (non-legally binding) ceremony. In fact, more than a few do precisely this, and guess what? They didnt get tossed in jail because of it either.

Is farcical. It's equivalent to separate but equal, blacks can marry blacks, whites can marry whites, and then shrugging and saying what's the problem?

Its not the equivalent of that at all. Why? Because sexualtiy =/= race.

Gay men don't want to marry women.

Except of course many willingly have. And loved them fwiw to you.

Gay women don't want to marry men.

See above.

I won't go as far as to say you're a hateful person because of the views you hold; quite the contrary. At one point in my life, I held the same views. I think you're fighting for what you think is right.

I just feel it's not even close to being right.

Well, I do. In fact, I could say the same thing, but in reverse. I used to be a liberal, was pro-abortion, etc the whole thing. I grew out of it.

 

[Askthepizzaguy]

Uhm...they CAN 'marry' the person they are attracted to...what they want is recognition of it by the government, and commensurately approval by the people of the USA.

No one is required to approve of things that happen to be legal.

I think smoking is stupid as hell, but it's legal.

There is not a single law in the USA preventing a homosexual couple exchanging rings, having a (non-legally binding) ceremony. In fact, more than a few do precisely this, and guess what? They didnt get tossed in jail because of it either.

I'm aware that this is "good enough" for them in your mind, but it's not the same thing as legally being married. The rights and privileges that accompany it and the dignity of being treated as an equal under the law, harm you in no way whatsoever.

I'm not debating you to change your mind. Your mind is made up. You don't approve. I know that. Just because you don't approve, that doesn't mean you're right about any of it.

Its not the equivalent of that at all. Why? Because sexualtiy =/= race.

Discrimination on the basis of race or sexuality is the same.

Except of course many willingly have. And loved them fwiw to you.

The exception is not the rule.

Well, I do. In fact, I could say the same thing, but in reverse. I used to be a liberal, was pro-abortion, etc the whole thing. I grew out of it.

You might want to get that growth removed. It looks cancerous.

 

[Arakhor]

Its not the equivalent of that at all. Why? Because sexualtiy =/= race.

I'd hazard a guess that the UK laws on equality and discrimination disagree with you entirely. No one in this country runs around saying, "oh, but that sort of discrimination is acceptable," and expects to be taken seriously.

 

[Leoreth]

Except of course many willingly have. And loved them fwiw to you.

Others have ruined their own life and that of their partner by doing so. Not to mention made the life of potential children harder.

 

[MobBoss]

I'd hazard a guess that the UK laws on equality and discrimination disagree with you entirely. No one in this country runs around saying, "oh, but that sort of discrimination is acceptable," and expects to be taken seriously.

And yet you dont have gay marriage either, right?

Others have ruined their own life and that of their partner by doing so. Not to mention made the life of potential children harder.

Isnt that outcome a risk in any marriage?

 

[Arakhor]

And yet you dont have gay marriage either, right?

We have legalised civil unions, with many of the perks of marriage, but no, we don't explicitly have gay marriage yet.

 

[Traitorfish]

If it's any good to you, we're probably going to have gay marriage in Scotland by the time the year is out. The Scottish government is making an announcement about it tomorrow, as it happens, and it's expected that it will be outlining legislation to bring in full marriage equality. With that as precedent, England & Wales, at least, will probably follow before too long. (Northern Ireland is a special creature which doesn't follow these trends in quite the same way.)

 

[Save_Ferris]

Jesus would not join thearmy. The whole point, whether you're Christian or not, is that he taught people to love their enemies. While defending, fighting is justified, but Jesus would show us the way to peace. Jesus, in essence, tried to teach more than lead.

 

[Askthepizzaguy]

Jesus would not join thearmy. The whole point, whether you're Christian or not, is that he taught people to love their enemies. While defending, fighting is justified, but Jesus would show us the way to peace. Jesus, in essence, tried to teach more than lead.

Yes, yes this is all very, very true, and very much backed up by most of the parts of the Bible which discuss Jesus.

At the same time, he's also purportedly the son of the very same God mentioned in Revelations and the Old Testament, who is much more fire and brimstone and bloody orgy of death and genocide. And he's also essentially the same being as God, according to the Trinity-based view. And he's also supposedly leading the charge, with the sword, in Revelations. With chariots and other nonsense.

Which is one of the million reasons the Bible is contradictory, old, dangly balls.