Would the GOP types push the USA into default ?

[JollyRoger]

If you want to reduce the deficit, you should probably not move one of the components of the equation in the wrong direction.

 

[Kaitzilla]

If you want to reduce the deficit, you should probably not move one of the components of the equation in the wrong direction.

Well, raising taxes helps fix the deficit, but concedes a bigger level of government.
I would be in favor of raising taxes when it is clear Democrats will tolerate no more spending cuts.


Raising taxes and spending increases?
I'd have to see something major on the table before I could get behind something like that.
Maybe criminally prosecuting and dissolving some of the Big Banks would be worth it.

 

[otago]

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the government shutdown in combination with the debt ceiling crisis could lead to talk of secession of individual states. The Republicans have figures that support secession (Rick Perry and Sarah Palin, to name a few) and, hell, even Liberal states who suffer from the unresponsive Federal government may actually consider it, considering the Federal government's importance to several welfare programs, and its inability to execute them. Besides, it won't be the Republicans who shall be known as the ones who destroyed the USA, though maybe Obama will be known as the American Gorbachov...

I'm not saying it will happen, but I do think there is a small but real risk that it may lead to the end of the Union. The USSR ended fairly quickly and unexpected as well, so I wouldn't say its impossible.

So back to the rich educated liberal states rejoining the Commonwealth as part of the united provinces of Canada
And the rump becoming jesusland, so tell me how does it hurt rich liberal states to keep all their money ?

 

[JollyRoger]

Well, raising taxes helps fix the deficit, but concedes a bigger level of government.
I would be in favor of raising taxes when it is clear Democrats will tolerate no more spending cuts.


Raising taxes and spending increases?
I'd have to see something major on the table before I could get behind something like that.
Maybe criminally prosecuting and dissolving some of the Big Banks would be worth it.

How about maintaining current tax levels?

 

[Kaitzilla]

How about maintaining current tax levels?

The baby boomers which we have known about for half a century are entering the 50-65 years old range,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_boomer

Cutting taxes is probably not realistic in the next 20 years.
Maintaining them at current levels even would be difficult.

If only there was some way to get medical costs under control, that would get to the root of our troubles.

 

[JollyRoger]

So the Teahadists are not being realistic on taxes?

 

[Wrymouth3]

Teahadists

Jesus, they are STILL around? I thought people who snorted paint and wite-out suffered permanent brain damage.

 

[Kaitzilla]

So the Teahadists are not being realistic on taxes?

The giant momentum of permanently higher government spending and ever increasing taxes to pay for them can only be resisted by being a bit unrealistic.

The extraordinary spending increases of the past 5 years are now baked into the cake yes?

Tooth and claw for $20 or $50 billion in reduced spending one year, next year spending increases $250 billion permanently.


Only if the tea party continues to be successful will there be more abundant friction between the smaller government crowd and the balanced budget crowd.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Jesus, they are STILL around? I thought people who snorted paint and wite-out suffered permanent brain damage.

Just because the media doesn't report on something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
This tea party lot in Congress just magically appeared for no reason


I saw the USA today newspaper increased in price to $2.00

Won't be long before the Koch Brothers can just buy all the old media.
Get some better press like Bezos did.

Maybe the media can all get a job in the Obama administration like dozens of their brethren.

 

[Rashiminos]

I don't deny anything of the sort. What I'm saying is the the Tea Party people are ignoring these others at their own peril and doing the opposite of what they need to do in order to adapt.

Ignoring democrats is not at their own peril, oddly enough (and they're not ignoring democrats at any rate). Now about this "what they need to do" business: Who says?

Spoiler :

Why bring up others in your "throwing themselves" argument? There should be no need to do so.

 

[FriendlyFire]

The extraordinary spending increases of the past 5 years are now baked into the cake yes?

Isnt there like two one wars and all those tax cuts ?

 

[Tahuti]

...so tell me how does it hurt rich liberal states to keep all their money ?

Not much. In fact, that's why I brought it up. However, if certain Federal programs ceased to be executed, such states would have to supplant the taxing capabilities of the Federal government (since Federal taxes, if these are even enforced will be for nothing anyhow) and they may even need their own monetary authority. One reason why individual states in the USA could be reluctant to effectively implement government programs is the lack of their own currency.

NOTE: I'm dead serious right now.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

One thing I don't understand. This Affordable Healthcare thing was already compromised and turned into law. It was looked at by those 9 in funny black frocks and found not to sodomise the constitution.

Months ago.

So why is this a thing now?

 

[FriendlyFire]

Not much. In fact, that's why I brought it up. However, if certain Federal programs ceased to be executed, such states would have to supplant the taxing capabilities of the Federal government (since Federal taxes, if these are even enforced will be for nothing anyhow) and they may even need their own monetary authority. One reason why individual states in the USA could be reluctant to effectively implement government programs is the lack of their own currency.

NOTE: I'm dead serious right now.

Down with socialism !

 

[Murky]

Ignoring democrats is not at their own peril, oddly enough (and they're not ignoring democrats at any rate). Now about this "what they need to do" business: Who says?

Spoiler :

Why bring up others in your "throwing themselves" argument? There should be no need to do so.

Look at their Ransom demands for the answer to that.

 

[Cutlass]

Why is everyone so down on the Tea Party?
Nothing wrong with being for small government and balanced budgets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movement




1) Decentralized
2) Advocating a reduction in the U.S. national debt and federal budget deficit by reducing U.S. government spending and taxes
3) Partly Conservate, partly libertarian

So they combine aspects that some people loathe.

That's no reason to call them teahadists
Or pine for gestapo-like tactics to be used against them


They are simply the inevitable outcome for people who realize that the Republicans are just as much for big government as Democrats are.

If the majority of the people in this country truly wish for higher taxes and bigger government, the tea party will ultimately lose.
But even then I doubt they will give up.
They firmly believe in smaller government and balanced budgets as firmly as some people believe in Socialism. Facts won't shake that kind of faith.

If Republicans say they are for smaller government, the tea party will pressure them to keep their word.
No more free passes while Trillion dollar deficits exist. (And Obamacare subsidies adds $250 billion per year to it)


**Edit**

Sigh, more scaremongering
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bruce-wilson/the-tea-party-plan-to-sha_b_4044186.html

Really, if 20 or 30 tea party people can crash the world, maybe we need to take a hard look at how we got here and where we are going?
None of this would be an issue if the budget was balanced. (You don't run into the debt ceiling every 5 minutes)
And deep down, everyone knows you can't balance the budget immediately.
It will take 10 years or more in the teeth of people saying very ugly things about you trying to stop spending our children and grandchildren into oblivion.

Teahadists prove that they refuse to balance the budget because they are not willing to raise taxes.
Teahadists prove that they reject libertarian principles because they want to devolve power to the states.
Teahadists prove that they are a radical fringe group willing to do whatever harm it takes to whoever it takes to get their way by shutting down the government, just because not enough people will vote for them.

 

[DemonicAppleGuY]

Anyone see a scenario where we raise the debt ceiling before we reopen the government?

 

[Rashiminos]

Anyone see a scenario where we raise the debt ceiling before we reopen the government?

Possibly.

 

[DemonicAppleGuY]

As a member of the upcoming generation that will supposedly be "crushed" by government debt, I would like to state I would rather face high debt than austerity.

Youth unemployment is Spain and Greece is about 56% and 63% respectively. We want to talk about a lost generation, there we go.

As for regular unemployment rates? 27.2% and 27.4% (respectively), and rising. That doesn't go away in a few years.

Our best and only choice is to tackle this debt thing slowly over time. The deficit is already falling due to spending cuts and economic growth. While I believe reform is in order (especially for retirement benefits, mainly raising the retirement age), we cannot radically shift fiscal policy in a time of modest growth.

In Keynes We Trust?

 

[Cutlass]

As a member of the upcoming generation that will supposedly be "crushed" by government debt, I would like to state I would rather face high debt than austerity.

Youth unemployment is Spain and Greece is about 56% and 63% respectively. We want to talk about a lost generation, there we go.

As for regular unemployment rates? 27.2% and 27.4% (respectively), and rising. That doesn't go away in a few years.

Our best and only choice is to tackle this debt thing slowly over time. The deficit is already falling due to spending cuts and economic growth. While I believe reform is in order (especially for retirement benefits, mainly raising the retirement age), we cannot radically shift fiscal policy in a time of modest growth.

In Keynes We Trust?

Then you'd be right. The worst thing for the young is what the conservatives tell you is good.