Yet another Abortion thread

[Prince_Imrahil]

This time around the question is, Would it be wrong to have an abortion after the fetus has developed enough to have consciosness and all that that makes a person a person?

Does the actual life (because this is not a fetus) of the child which is still in the womb matter more than the woman's autonomy over her body?

...and for the sake of this question, there is no threat to her life, and the reason she carried the child this late was perhaps because she didnt know earlier (lets assume) but now that she does doesnt want the kid...

Would it be Wrong to abort?

 

[Atlas14]

My personal view is that once consciousness is attained, the fetus becomes an actual human being and is thus entitled to the right to life, and abortion past this point would be wrong.

 

[Prince_Imrahil]

But how easy is it to tell if consciosness has been attained?

 

[Fifty]

It should be legal to kill your kids up to age 10.

 

[Atlas14]

But how easy is it to tell if consciosness has been attained?

I would say once a brain has been formed it becomes conscious.

 

[Gogf]

My personal view is that once consciousness is attained, the fetus becomes an actual human being and is thus entitled to the right to life, and abortion past this point would be wrong.

I agree with this view. Since it's not that easy to determine when a child becomes conscious, and since human-like brain waves generally begin at the the third trimester, my view is that abortion is fine until the third trimester. After that point, abortion for any reason other than a severe health risk to the mother should not be allowed.

The "it's by body I can do whatever I want with it" argument stops when someone else is affected by your decisions.

 

[Leonel]

It should be legal to kill your kids up to age 10.

I say the age limit should be bumped up to 200 years old.

 

[Shadylookin]

I was under the believe that the mother's hormones cause the fetus to sleep most of the time and that would stop higher level brain function. however even if they are conscious the mother should have the right to remove whatever she wants from her body.

 

[Tee Kay]

This time around the question is, Would it be wrong to have an abortion after the fetus has developed enough to have consciosness and all that that makes a person a person?

Does the actual life (because this is not a fetus) of the child which is still in the womb matter more than the woman's autonomy over her body?

...and for the sake of this question, there is no threat to her life, and the reason she carried the child this late was perhaps because she didnt know earlier (lets assume) but now that she does doesnt want the kid...

Would it be Wrong to abort?

Generally, yes.

But I respect the person's personal freedom. So even though I wouldn't support abortion unless there's a threat on the woman's live or if the child have some disability, I would have no problem if others choose to do so, since it's their personal choice and not something others should interfere with.

 

[GenMarshall]

Abortions, regardless if the fetus has consciousness or not is still wrong. At this point, its still wrong to abort at this point in development.

 

[Adamb0mb]

Abortions, regardless if the fetus has consciousness or not is still wrong.

a common viewpoint.

At this point, its still wrong to abort at this point in development.

If it is wrong at this point in development, does that mean that it is right or okay at some other point? If so, when?

And to which points in development are you refering?

 

[GenMarshall]

If it is wrong at this point in development, does that mean that it is right or okay at some other point? If so, when?

Its never ok in any point of the development of the fetus/embryo to abort.

And to which points in development are you refering?

The development of the unborn baby from conception to birth. I'm not a medical doctor who specializes in fetal development mind you.

 

[Tee Kay]

Its never ok in any point of the development of the fetus/embryo to abort.

What if the child is known to have some very serious mental disability that can't be cured and he's to be crippled for the rest of his life? I would say that'd be a case where abortion is "okay". It's still a sin, but it's more acceptable than abortion because the mother just doesn't want to have the baby.

 

[GenMarshall]

What if the child is known to have some very serious mental disability that can't be cured and he's to be crippled for the rest of his life? I would say that'd be a case where abortion is "okay". It's still a sin, but it's more acceptable than abortion because the mother just doesn't want to have the baby.

This is one of thoes cases where I cannot reconcile that scenario with my faith. Regardless, its still not "okay" in that case if a child has a mental handicap, to abort the child.

 

[El_Machinae]

Would it be Wrong to abort?

Yes, it's wrong. Ideally we'd want to remove the fetus and place it in some type of artificial womb. With today's technology, we might be damning the child to a life of retardation, though.

A just-born baby (who isn't wanted) is whisked away to an orphanage-type system, and made a ward of the state. The mother is not allowed to drown it instead.

However, just because it's wrong doesn't mean the abortion should be forbidden. We have the additional problem of not wanting to make someone a slave of another (which is what we're doing to the mother if we prevent her from aborting). In our society, you're allowed to harm a captor in order to free yourself, and this is where some of our abortion rights come from.

Once neonatal care becomes powerful enough, I might not mind changing the law into getting women to give the fetus up to medical care. But I would have to think about the topic more deeply before I'd vote for such a change.

I would say once a brain has been formed it becomes conscious.

It's a bit more complicated. A baby might not be conscious until well after it's born, maybe even for months. The brain of a newborn is a .... well ... it's a mess, really, trying to sort itself out. That said, at some point the neurons are no longer only growing, but also receiving and adapting to environmental input. I (until we have a better theory of mind) put the development line there.

Since abortion is such a common debate topic, people might want to learn a bit about fetal neural development. Here's a seminar on the topic. I don't think it's too complicated. An hour is not an unreasonable time to spend on a topic so many people find important.

 

[Gogf]

Abortions, regardless if the fetus has consciousness or not is still wrong. At this point, its still wrong to abort at this point in development.

The development of the unborn baby from conception to birth. I'm not a medical doctor who specializes in fetal development mind you.

Would you have a problem with preventing a human being from being created? Are you opposed to contraceptives?

What if the child is known to have some very serious mental disability that can't be cured and he's to be crippled for the rest of his life? I would say that'd be a case where abortion is "okay". It's still a sin, but it's more acceptable than abortion because the mother just doesn't want to have the baby.

It's not your choice whether the child's life is worth living or not. The fact that the kid will have some sort of mental disability is not a good reason to take its life.

 

[CartesianFart]

I think it is necessary to abort a fetus/unborn child if there is any sign showing that the child is somewhat ******** and can't be a productive member of society.

It is a burden to watch people catering to needs of mindless vegetables who drools on themselves all day for the rest of their lives.

I guess they are indeed cash-cows for the mental-retardation industry!

 

[warpus]

I was under the believe that the mother's hormones cause the fetus to sleep most of the time and that would stop higher level brain function. however even if they are conscious the mother should have the right to remove whatever she wants from her body.

It's not only her body, if another human being is sharing it with her.

Having said that, the later the abortion occurs, the more I am against it. I don't see anything wrong with aborting.. say.. 1 or 2 weeks after conception.

 

[Gogf]

I think it is necessary to abort a fetus/unborn child if there is any sign showing that the child is somewhat ******** and can't be a productive member of society.

Should we also execute somewhat ******** children who have been born?

 

[CartesianFart]

Should we also execute somewhat ******** children who have been born?

I wouldn't say 'execute' but simply 'disposing waste' that are rejected as worthless.