2018 U.S election

[innonimatu]

Mani Pulite did end the traditional duopoly of corrupt self-serving parties and replaced them with a personalistic populistic regime led by a senescent media mogul with a history of sexual abuse and racist politics galore.

Indeed. And then it was copied in Brazil and unsurprisingly produced the same results. It's almost as if the people who did it knew what they wanted to bring about...

Beware what you support.

 

[cardgame]

I'm not convinced by that argument at all.

I don't know if it is an argument so much as it is a statement of fact.

In Georgia, voting while black is a prohibited political act.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/black-voters-matter-bus-georgia_us_5bc76a27e4b055bc947ce32b

Have we mentioned yet that native americans are now completely, 100% banned from voting?

 

[metatron]

I don't know if it is an argument so much as it is a statement of fact.

Well, parts of it are. I just happen to have demonstrated their limited relevance.

 

[Sommerswerd]

But why do we really need more than two parties? I remember a while back someone in a different thread talking about how there's really no need for more than two parties in the US because the two we have already have become giant umbrella parties that offer something for everyone.

It was Tim.

I routinely defend the two party system, so that may have been me.

Yep it was you... You were responding to someone claiming that the British Parliamentary system was so much better with all the different parties, by saying that instead of starting with numerous parties and having to form coalitions, that in the US, the parties are the coalitions...I remember thinking what an astute observation that was at the time.

 

[Farm Boy]

It worked better when there were more "rockefeller republicans" and more "blue dog" democrats. With the coalitions being relative crystal, it's more brittle and stupid than it was.

 

[Zkribbler]

I agree with Sommerswerd, Tim, & Farm Boy. Kumbaya.

--Although with a parliamentary system, if the Prime Minister goes all crazy on the country, (s)he can be kicked out with a simple vote of no confidence.

 

[Lexicus]

Yep it was you... You were responding to someone claiming that the British Parliamentary system was so much better with all the different parties, by saying that instead of starting with numerous parties and having to form coalitions, that in the US, the parties are the coalitions...I remember thinking what an astute observation that was at the time.

It's been known. Winner-take-all elections means that politics will inevitably coalesce around the largest possible factions, ie, two parties.

The real problem with our system is the fact that it's a Presidential system, we have now combined the powers of head of state and head of government into Donald Trump.

 

[metalhead]

The two party system is not the problem. Tim is absolutely right, it just forms coalitions at different points in the process. There are pluses and minuses, of course, as compared to parliamentary systems with several smaller parties. One is not really better, they are just different.

The problem is that the system has been gamed to ensure a minority coalition of theocrats and plutocrats has political clout far beyond their actual popular support.

 

[Lexicus]

The problem is that the system has been gamed to ensure a minority coalition of theocrats and plutocrats has political clout far beyond their actual popular support.

Theocrats aside, the Constitution was more or less explicitly set up to do this. We had to fight a war to make it work a little differently.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Theocrats aside, the Constitution was more or less explicitly set up to do this. We had to fight a war to make it work a little differently.

which of course invokes Thomas Jefferson. The response to which... as delivered by Sean Connery playing an alternative version of an aged, captured James Bond, is:

"Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious, according to Oscar Wilde (*gets immediately punched in the face by American General played by Ed Harris*)... Thanks for proving my point."

 

[Farm Boy]

The punch is easier to see than the quiet life lived well. Both are patriotic. I reject your Hollywood Bond villain definition.

 

[Lexicus]

which of course invokes Thomas Jefferson. The response to which... as delivered by Sean Connery playing an alternative version of an aged, captured James Bond, is:

"Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious, according to Oscar Wilde (*gets immediately punched in the face by American General played by Ed Harris*)... Thanks for proving my point."

I will be surprised if the results of the election are more out of sync with how people actually voted than they were in the last several elections. The Republicans get seats in the House that are disproportionate to the amount of votes they get in House elections, while of course the Republican majority in the Senate represents a straight minority of actual Americans (and an even smaller minority if you consider who actually voted for Republicans in the states they represent).

 

[Sommerswerd]

The punch is easier to see than the quiet life lived well. Both are patriotic. I reject your Hollywood Bond villain definition.

Not mine... Oscar Wilde's definition via David Weisberg and Douglas Cook via Sean Connery or vice-versa.

I'm Murican... Oscar Wilde (and Sean Connery/James Bond) ain't... if that answers your question. And "a quiet life lived well" ain't fixing the problems we have in our national politics, that I can tell you ... buh-leeve me.

I will be surprised if the results of the election are more out of sync with how people actually voted than they were in the last several elections. The Republicans get seats in the House that are disproportionate to the amount of votes they get in House elections, while of course the Republican majority in the Senate represents a straight minority of actual Americans (and an even smaller minority if you consider who actually voted for Republicans in the states they represent).

As you've pointed out on numerous occasions... That's a feature not a bug.

 

[Farm Boy]

Your (provided) definition.

Sorry, was lacking context again. I'll just take your word on whatever your reply to that context was.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Which one? Read it again (we x-posted). Or did you mean "their" by "your"?

 

[Farm Boy]

Not digging into that convo.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Not digging into that convo.

Context? Sure.
1. Murican politics is brokeded
2. To the death
3. *gasp* that's "advocating violence" your "side" is bad
4. Both sides are bad
5. No, your side is bad
6. GOTO 1

 

[Farm Boy]

Sounds like advocating violence is the point at which to break out of your provided loop of malignant brain damage. I catch it too time to time, but I'm burning out of patience with it early today.

Per the bit about quiet lives, I'll counter quote a lifelong Republican who hated superhero myths as the opposite of what actually made the world good, he said(approximately, I'm not looking it up right now), "When things are scary look for the helpers. There are always people helping." They don't get the news, they don't get the verses, yet they're always the people who actually move the world forward. They rate as the fathers of God, as The Story goes.

 

[Takhisis]

Indeed. And then it was copied in Brazil and unsurprisingly produced the same results. It's almost as if the people who did it knew what they wanted to bring about...

Beware what you support.

It brings about Brexit, too.

Have we mentioned yet that native americans are now completely, 100% banned from voting?

I remember reading something in the U.S. constitution about excluding indians.

 

[Zkribbler]

It brings about Brexit, too.

I remember reading something in the U.S. constitution about excluding indians.

"...shall be determined by adding to the whole number of free persons, including those bound to service for a term of years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons...

But then, what is an Indian? I'd guess I have maybe 1% Indian blood. Am I an Indian, entitled to live tax free?