2020 Election Thread!!!!!!!!!

The problem is that nobody is saying he's unfit. The media, oft-accused of harboring intense anti-Trump bias, as of yet are unwilling to report this painfully obvious truth as fact.

"The media," here, is too broad (as pretty much all uses of that term are; I'm not faulting you specifically). I relish watching Lawrence O'Donnell each night precisely because he basically begins with the premise that Trump is unfit, and then does this day's version of why that is.
 
That's true, but he might be the only one on cable news. Even Maddow doesn't go that far on-air, at least not directly. Morning Joe is getting there, although I think they're still in the area of, "people need to seriously question his fitness," or, "this is just more evidence that he is unfit." Splitting hairs, I guess, but that stops just short of actually proclaiming that Trump's behavior over the last 9 months is specifically due to the fact that he is not mentally fit to be president.
 
On Morning Joe, it's Mika specifically who is willing to say it in so many words. She says it with a concerned tone in her voice, as against O'Donnell's more militant tone. But she's saying it.

Last night, O'Donnell had on as a guest a guy he often has, and some of the other shows occasionally do--Richard (?) Painter--chief ethics lawyer for the Bush administration. He said it as forcefully as anyone I've heard so far: that there is now sufficient and indisputable proof of Trump's unfitness that Pence and the cabinet should remove Trump from office. He didn't quite say the next thing in so many words, but close: you know his access to the nuclear codes, combined with his temperament, makes him a threat to the world; the blood of millions of people is going to be on your hands for not acting now.
 
I worry about framing it as a "fact" that Trump is unfit for office, though. It should be up to the people whether he is fit for office or not.
 
I worry about framing it as a "fact" that Trump is unfit for office, though. It should be up to the people whether he is fit for office or not.
I give you... "the people"

Nominee...............Donald Trump ......Hillary Clinton
Popular vote.........62,984,825..............65,853,516
Percentage
...........46.1%......................48.2%
 
Well yeah, and in reality we all know that Congress won't make a move until they gain more by doing so than they lose in Trump support.
But the news media doesn't need for Congress to make a move. They can start reporting the truth at any time. They helped make this mess, they can help fix it.
 
But the news media doesn't need for Congress to make a move. They can start reporting the truth at any time. They helped make this mess, they can help fix it.

Maybe. I just have visions of any remotely left-wing elected official in the future being branded insane and removed from office.
 
Trump is already campaigning back again, but i doubt he will be re-elected.
 
His fight with the Khan family was Trump's nadir in terms of polling and approval ratings; he went lower then than even in the immediate aftermath of the Access Hollywood tape becoming public.

I don't think this will cause immediate abandonment of him or anything, but this really is a low he has stooped to that is new in terms of what he has done during his presidency, and it cuts very strongly across partisan lines. He's also now commander-in-chief and personally responsible for creating the new Gold Star families that he is now battling with and being unbelievably callous towards. And there is no easy path to rehabilitating his image with the boogeyman of his opponent - he owns these things, full stop, and his approval ratings do not seem to bounce back much once something like this drives them downwards.

It's all cumulative. There is a tipping point, and while it's probably still pretty far away, things like this bring him closer to it. And he seems utterly incapable of doing anything to right the ship and move away from said tipping point. At least, not without upsetting the apple cart again and ruining whatever modicum of goodwill he is able to obtain in fleeting moments of seeming competence (hurricane response in Texas and Florida, and surprisingly human-like remarks in the wake of Las Vegas).

Ok but what's this tipping point going to do? He's unimpeachable until the Dems take a firm supermajority of Congress. Anything short of that massive electoral victory won't change anything. The Republicans are not going to do anything that undermines his presidency. And the rest of us are waaaay past any tipping point where we want him out of office. So we either rally and overcome gerrymandering to the extent that we can impeach him or we beat him in 2020. But in both cases there's no meaningful tipping point that I can see that will tip the outcome. I can't see him doing anything short of starting WWIII that will meaningfully impact the midterm elections over the results we'd get if we had the elections right this minute. And for him to lose in 2020 young people just have to show up and vote which I'm pretty sure they are going to do at this point regardless of what he does between now and then.

I guess what I'm saying is that we're stuck with him and nothing he's going to do until 2020 will change that. He's almost certainly going to lose in 2020 despite anything good or bad he does until then.
 
Maybe. I just have visions of any remotely left-wing elected official in the future being branded insane and removed from office.
Yeah we're kind of playing with fire if we take a page from the Republican playbook and adopt a scorched earth policy. While I really want the Democrats to start doing things to stop Republicans like stealing SCOTUS nominees and shutting down every POTUS appointment to government, it sets up really bad precedents. I means sure, the Republicans already set that precedent but I want a function government more than I want to beat the Republicans. And I guess that's why I could never be a Republican because my feelings seem to be the antithesis of their strategy - to win at all costs.

Although in the end I support efforts to remove Trump on sanity grounds, it's going to backfire and I can see every Republican majority using this strategy against every future Democratic president regardless of how good or bad they are doing.

The solution I guess is to break the Republicans so hard in upcoming elections that they have to fundamentally reform. Not sure that will happen but we can count on the Tea Party doing their part to destroy the Republican party from within so there is that.
Trump is already campaigning back again, but i doubt he will be re-elected.
He never stopped campaigning. He's still holding rallies and accepting donations and using those donations to illegally fund political activities. :(
 
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Yeah we're kind of playing with fire if we take a page from the Republican playbook and adopt a scorched earth policy.

I don't know, I don't even see the question in these terms. It wouldn't be democratic to get rid of Trump by invoking the 25th Amendment, the way it would be democratic if Congress impeached him due to overwhelming public support for impeachment (and at that point the grounds used to remove him from office don't even matter). It would be, in effect, a coup, and I would imagine it would have terrible political consequences (ie, further radicalizing the right).

I means sure, the Republicans already set that precedent but I want a function government more than I want to beat the Republicans.

I actually don't. I would prefer the government not work than that it work the way Republicans want it to. Like, for example the federal government is still actually doing stuff in the public interest (for example, my mom who's a university professor told me that one of her colleagues just got a bunch of federal grant money to study something or other, I can't remember what but it was something to do with violence against women in the workplace). What this means is that Trump's appointees aren't able to control all of what their agencies do, which implies "dysfunction" but its dysfunction that I'm entirely in favor of.
 
Yeah we're kind of playing with fire if we take a page from the Republican playbook and adopt a scorched earth policy. While I really want the Democrats to start doing things to stop Republicans like stealing SCOTUS nominees and shutting down every POTUS appointment to government, it sets up really bad precedents. I means sure, the Republicans already set that precedent but I want a function government more than I want to beat the Republicans. And I guess that's why I could never be a Republican because my feelings seem to be the antithesis of their strategy - to win at all costs.
The Democrats have "be the bigger/better person"ed themselves right into being despised as "elitist" "aloof" "condescending" and "arrogant". They're so busy trying to "be the adults" that they've lost focus on "winning the elections".
 
I guess what I'm saying is that we're stuck with him and nothing he's going to do until 2020 will change that. He's almost certainly going to lose in 2020 despite anything good or bad he does until then.
Don't be so sure. Incumbents get elected the vast majority of the time. Bush was massively unpopular but beat Kerry because Kerry was a bad candidate. The Democrats have to come up with something good. Or at the very least, don't intentionally screw one of the candidates. Hillary really and truly felt the bern in the general election.
 
I know... Many Republican voters and Republican politicians feel the same way... it has grown tiresome having to defend him all the time and it wears one's credibility so thin...
Not so thin as that. The guys I know that were advocates are even more on board now. He's providing cover while his administration is staying on program and following through on his campaign promises. It can be easy to look at the setbacks in the Senate and miss the 50 Federal Judges he's nominated, the restructuring of the State department, EPA, Education, HUD, etc., the new level of enforcement of the border. Now, we are getting a third run at ACA, using a very new different approach and with good chances of at least partial success. Persistance. His people love him and that sort of enthusiasm is contagious.

The Democrats have "be the bigger/better person"ed themselves right into being despised as "elitist" "aloof" "condescending" and "arrogant". They're so busy trying to "be the adults" that they've lost focus on "winning the elections".
Agreed and nothing we have seen in the last six months shows movement in a better direction. If anything, they are more condescending, more judgmental and less tolerant than they have been the last decade. Lest we forget, they lost 1000 seats at various levels in that time. Someone that says, "I have a better way." can make headway. Too often Democrats have said, "You're too racist/homophobic/sexist/stupid to understand what is right. Give me the keys."

J
 
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