2020 US Election (Part One)

[Bugfatty300]

What's the exact problem? The hold ups in the results?

They're deciding whether or not they're going to jump off the sittin' fence or ride it toward the republicans.

 

[Estebonrober]

The dnc literally prefers trump over sanders, that much is clear

WASHINGTON—As the beginning of primary season upped the stakes in their search for an alternative candidate, Democratic National Committee officials reportedly mulled Monday asking Donald Trump to run for president as a Democrat in an effort to stop Bernie Sanders. “He’s obviously not our first choice, but Trump has a track record of winning elections, not to mention he does well with the conservative voters we’ll need to swing some red states blue—if that’s who we need to ask to ensure Bernie doesn’t win, we’ll do it,” said DNC chairman Tom Perez, who had circled Trump’s name on a white board lising dozens of potential candidates the party could try to convince to jump into the Democratic Party primaries in order to obstruct a Sanders nomination.

https://politics.theonion.com/dnc-mulls-asking-donald-trump-to-run-as-democrat-in-eff-1841432132

You are not alone in thinking this lol.

 

[Zardnaar]

WASHINGTON—As the beginning of primary season upped the stakes in their search for an alternative candidate, Democratic National Committee officials reportedly mulled Monday asking Donald Trump to run for president as a Democrat in an effort to stop Bernie Sanders. “He’s obviously not our first choice, but Trump has a track record of winning elections, not to mention he does well with the conservative voters we’ll need to swing some red states blue—if that’s who we need to ask to ensure Bernie doesn’t win, we’ll do it,” said DNC chairman Tom Perez, who had circled Trump’s name on a white board lising dozens of potential candidates the party could try to convince to jump into the Democratic Party primaries in order to obstruct a Sanders nomination.

https://politics.theonion.com/dnc-mulls-asking-donald-trump-to-run-as-democrat-in-eff-1841432132

You are not alone in thinking this lol.

As soon as I started reading that I thought The Onion lol.

Still shouldn't be to hard to count 170k votes.

 

[Estebonrober]

I did not say conservatism was the best approach in all situations. Which is the crux of your point: efficacy. My observation has nothing to do with the efficacy of your(or my) estimation of public policy and everything to do with "not understanding" where they're coming from. They're way more conservative on the whole than their male peers. With damn good reasons too, your estimation of their ignorance aside.

You want to call them dumb? Jesus man, just call them dumb and get the eff to it.

Edit: or hell, take the less contentious approach. If you think the observation is incorrect, either in premise or reasoning, take issue with the accuracy of the observation - not an editorial. It's an attempt to understand first. Swaying and "culpability" come later.

You're right they are in a lot of cases. Yes I think its completely misguided. Knowledge beats out "discipline" in this case and in every case I can think of actually.

They are not dumb overall, they are dumb when it comes to their instincts on raising families. Their instincts take them in the wrong direction. Which as voters leads them down very stupid paths like voting for Trump.

 

[ThERat]

Man, this is just so....how much worse can it get? Such incompetence. Or should I say, should open rigging?
If the reports are true, the app was made by a company called shadow. How good is that? Worse though is that Buttigieg's campaign was involved in financing this app??? And a superpac is involved as well. The DNC really wants to hand this right to Trump as they are too scared of Bernie.

 

[mitsho]

In cases like this, always ask yourself, it this could be out of human stupidity and not malicious intent. It often is incompetence by the way, and not a conspiracy.

 

[ThERat]

You give the DNC any benefit of doubt? Not me

 

[Zardnaar]

I bet if they announce results soon and Sanders is 1st or 2nd people will be happy.

Something similar happened 2016, sounds more systematic than conspiracy.

 

[Ironsided]

I’m a staunch Bernie supporter and I will not be happy. Like Cami said the momentum is lost. The one-two punch of Iowa + NH is lost. Also, first, I fully expect Sanders to be first and by some margin. That’s what the polls, the response and crowd at rallies and ground game and the momentum has told me. Second, if they say Bernie is second, I will not buy it for one second of a second. Only an idiot would after "problems counting" using the most transparent and quite frankly medieval caucus method.

The caucus system is completely outdated and encourages what is at best persuasion but at worst bullying, as voters may feel pressured by having to state their choice in front of family, friends, co-workers, bosses, neighbours and loved ones. The good part in this is there must be a thousand of texts and tweets and whatnot to verify results against in the long run.

 

[Gorbles]

Yeah, I'm just a Brit, and while I don't buy into immediate claims of conspiracy, the non-conspiracy arguments I've seen of "it's horrendously pointless in 2020 to rely on a caucus and it's incredibly open to mismanagement and abuse" is hardly an endorsement of the current state of affairs, is it?

Regardless of the reasons, or the lengths political actors (meant in the non acting-profession sense) will go to avoid accountability, the model here seems fundamentally broken. For that alone, it should change, regardless or not if people can prove the DNC did anything, or helped allow things to happen.

 

[Sommerswerd]

An analyst on MSNBC is pushing the idea that Bloomberg benefits the most from this fiasco because of there being no clear winner. Then they started bemoaning that "if" Bootyjudge won, he had been robbed of his historic moment.

FOX is revelling in the Iowa debacle, calling it both evidence of rigging and Democratic incompetence.

Sanders seemed to be winning when I went to sleep last night, so he seems to have been hosed by all this. FOX is having a field day with it.

 

[luiz]

So it looks like Trump won the Iowa caucus?

 

[Estebonrober]

So it looks like Trump won the Iowa caucus?

Like my Onion article said, Democrats will go with Trump if it saves their tax cuts.

 

[Farm Boy]

You're right they are in a lot of cases. Yes I think its completely misguided. Knowledge beats out "discipline" in this case and in every case I can think of actually.

They are not dumb overall, they are dumb when it comes to their instincts on raising families. Their instincts take them in the wrong direction. Which as voters leads them down very stupid paths like voting for Trump.

Well, there's the point about their interests being explained to them.

Interesting point about discipline. I think it's wrong. Heck, you can see the point around here all the time with El Mac trying to convince people to eat just a little differently. It's not a matter of not knowing. It's a matter of refusing to be disciplined. It's why I call the liberal segment libertines.

 

[Estebonrober]

Well, there's the point about their interests being explained to them.

Interesting point about discipline. I think it's wrong. Heck, you can see the point around here all the time with El Mac trying to convince people to eat just a little differently. It's not a matter of not knowing. It's a matter of refusing to be disciplined. It's why I call the liberal segment libertines.

Yea knowledge dramatically helps real personal discipline vs enforced external discipline. Or agree to disagree I guess. Idk.

I hear a lot of racist and homophobic **** around here, so the cultural point stands regardless of the feminist issues.

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

What's the exact problem? The hold ups in the results?

We don't know for sure and I've seen 100000 different stories, all refuting one another, but it looks like the app being used to tabulate votes and delegates just completely self-destructed, so everything has to be done by hand, and between the ranked choice aspect, and the fact that delegate representation requires some math (1 vote doesn't = 1 delegate), they have been caught flat-footed on having to do everything manually. It seems there is a paper trail, so I think we will get the results, but man. Lots of repercussions:

What few early results we did get showed Pete doing pretty decent- if he really did overperform, he gets totally screwed by this fiasco.
If Bernie did win, he gets screwed pretty badly too. His recourse is he will probably win New Hampshire, which sort of becomes the first state now.
Biden appeared to be doing really poorly, and this controversy will help cover that up. He might have dodged a bullet.
The DNC and the party just delivered a major electoral fiasco that conservatives will turn into "and you want them to run health care?!?!?!?" and "rigged!!!!!!!" for weeks now.

 

[Estebonrober]

We don't know for sure and I've seen 100000 different stories, all refuting one another, but it looks like the app being used to tabulate votes and delegates just completely self-destructed, so everything has to be done by hand, and between the ranked choice aspect, and the fact that delegate representation requires some math (1 vote doesn't = 1 delegate), they have been caught flat-footed on having to do everything manually. It seems there is a paper trail, so I think we will get the results, but man. Lots of repercussions:

What few early results we did get showed Pete doing pretty decent- if he really did overperform, he gets totally screwed by this fiasco.
If Bernie did win, he gets screwed pretty badly too. His recourse is he will probably win New Hampshire, which sort of becomes the first state now.
Biden appeared to be doing really poorly, and this controversy will help cover that up. He might have dodged a bullet.
The DNC and the party just delivered a major electoral fiasco that conservatives will turn into "and you want them to run health care?!?!?!?" and "rigged!!!!!!!" for weeks now.

And this might be the exact purpose of the **** show that was last night.

 

[ThERat]

Well, I hope more people realize that the DNC is the real enemy of progress in the country.

 

[Kyriakos]

Man, this is just so....how much worse can it get? Such incompetence. Or should I say, should open rigging?
If the reports are true, the app was made by a company called shadow. How good is that? Worse though is that Buttigieg's campaign was involved in financing this app??? And a superpac is involved as well. The DNC really wants to hand this right to Trump as they are too scared of Bernie.

Yes, this makes it even more suspicious, because Pete suppressed the standard poll (which would have been something to fall back on) and financed the app which was used for this charade/rigging. It is terrible. Even Biden, who seems to have collapsed there, mumbled some idiocy about "doing really well - off to New Hampshire!!!"

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

One of the bigger concerns not being spoken about is turnout was a looooot lower than expected. More 2016 than 2008, after it seemed like anticipation was super high. If Dem enthusiasm is slowing, for whatever reason, that's a huge electoral issue for them in 2020.