2020 US Election (Part One)

[hobbsyoyo]

I thought his Daddy did that... But since I think most taxes are theft I'm not too upset.

His father did evade taxes, Donald made it a family business.

 

[Estebonrober]

But since I think most taxes are theft I'm not too upset.

Your social justice warrior is showing. Taxes are the payment for the contract you sign by living in said country. Maybe they should be simpler here in the US. They should definitely be higher on the top 20%. You shouldn't break the law to dodge them, or has the right in its social justice crusade started advocating lawlessness?

Schools, roads, retirement, and poverty be damned!

 

[Berzerker]

His father did evade taxes, Donald made it a family business.

Donald aint been making much money, Daddy made the big bucks. I'm not even sure Donald has stayed out of the red. But until the IRS says he evaded taxes I see little point in getting upset about it. He's done plenty of upsetting things without speculating about that.

Your social justice warrior is showing. Taxes are the payment for the contract you sign by living in said country. Maybe they should be simpler here in the US. They should definitely be higher on the top 20%. You shouldn't break the law to dodge them, or has the right in its social justice crusade started advocating lawlessness?

Schools, roads, retirement, and poverty be damned!

I thought social justice warrior is an insult leveled at people on the left. You cant do any better than the right wingers? Taxes are many things, some good, some not so good. I dont have a problem with a tax to pay for roads, thats what gas taxes are supposed to be for. Taxes become theft when they're no longer 'user fees' like a gas tax to pay for roads. For example, taxes used to bail out Wall St or the S&L and housing industries. Corporate subsidies are theft, making the people of a city pay for a stadium to house some rich guy's sports team is theft.

People paid into social security, schools should be funded by the people using them to educate their kids and poverty will decline if people are free to keep more of their money instead of subsidizing political constituencies based on clout. It doesn't matter if you have a good reason to take other people's money for your causes, its still theft. Maybe that can be justified, maybe pragmatism demands it, but when I see my labor going to my neighbors because they bribed a politician to take my money, I'm not exactly eager to pat them on the back for their good work.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Your reasoning is thoughtful, but your "taxes is theft" is wrong. Taxes are legal even if you disapprove of them. Theft is not legal. Your phrasing is just poor attempt at being inflammable.

 

[Berzerker]

Well TY, but theft existed before government...and afterward judging by the wealth being accumulated by Putin and his buddies.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Donald aint been making much money, Daddy made the big bucks. I'm not even sure Donald has stayed out of the red. But until the IRS says he evaded taxes I see little point in getting upset about it. He's done plenty of upsetting things without speculating about that.

Why is it every time conservatives think someone in power may have committed a crime, we shouldn't be worried about it until he's been convicted...

...but we're still talking about emails that were dismissed by the FBI going on 3 years ago?

 

[Birdjaguar]

Well TY, but theft existed before government...and afterward judging by the wealth being accumulated by Putin and his buddies.

The fact that people can be/have been thieves and governments can be/have been thieves, doesn't mean that all people and all governments are thieves. The fact that we have 51 different tax systems in the US is a demonstration of how varied they can be and how citizens can have an impact on how they are taxed.

 

[Estebonrober]

Donald aint been making much money, Daddy made the big bucks. I'm not even sure Donald has stayed out of the red. But until the IRS says he evaded taxes I see little point in getting upset about it. He's done plenty of upsetting things without speculating about that.



I thought social justice warrior is an insult leveled at people on the left. You cant do any better than the right wingers? Taxes are many things, some good, some not so good. I dont have a problem with a tax to pay for roads, thats what gas taxes are supposed to be for. Taxes become theft when they're no longer 'user fees' like a gas tax to pay for roads. For example, taxes used to bail out Wall St or the S&L and housing industries. Corporate subsidies are theft, making the people of a city pay for a stadium to house some rich guy's sports team is theft.

People paid into social security, schools should be funded by the people using them to educate their kids and poverty will decline if people are free to keep more of their money instead of subsidizing political constituencies based on clout. It doesn't matter if you have a good reason to take other people's money for your causes, its still theft. Maybe that can be justified, maybe pragmatism demands it, but when I see my labor going to my neighbors because they bribed a politician to take my money, I'm not exactly eager to pat them on the back for their good work.

It was ironic rhetoric.

Your sense of taxation as theft is misguided sense of justice. You need to reverse it in your mind a bit. Although we agree in principle about subsiding private enterprise generally ( I make exceptions for research and such), education and welfare are actually helpful to you even if you don't use them. They improve your neighbors lot in life and thus relax the tension in our society. They also give more opportunity to those who put in the effort but otherwise would never be able to get themselves out of the poverty trap. In the latter case much more needs to be done in the US. Its why in the last 40 years we have fallen so much in social versatility, mobility, and stability.

 

[Traitorfish]

schools should be funded by the people using them to educate their kids

They're everyone's kids, so everyone is using them. You can't fence off one part of society because it's too poor or black or rural and declare it none-of-my-business, because it will surely make itself your business down the road.

 

[Old Hippy]

Why is it every time conservatives think someone in power may have committed a crime, we shouldn't be worried about it until he's been convicted...

...but we're still talking about emails that were dismissed by the FBI going on 3 years ago?

its ironic that you have two contradictory views about two crimes allegedly both committed 3 years ago....

 

[brennan]

...poverty will decline if people are free to keep more of their money...

Every single country that boosted social spending - on healthcare, education, social security etc - in the post-war period underwent a profound shift (improvement) in incomes and living standards across the board. That required increased taxation,

 

[Estebonrober]

its ironic that you have two contradictory views about two crimes allegedly both committed 3 years ago....

Except one was investigate for like 6 years now and the other still has yet to come to an end. Also one produced no arrests or convictions and the other has produced dozens already. I get your loathing of the "deep state" and its use as an explanation why Clinton didn't get prosecuted, but surely you can see the difference between the two investigations. Oh yea don't forget one was sloppiness and negligence at worst and the other is working with a foreign hostile power to weaken the USA.

 

[Old Hippy]

Except one was investigate for like 6 years now and the other still has yet to come to an end. Also one produced no arrests or convictions and the other has produced dozens already. I get your loathing of the "deep state" and its use as an explanation why Clinton didn't get prosecuted, but surely you can see the difference between the two investigations. Oh yea don't forget one was sloppiness and negligence at worst and the other is working with a foreign hostile power to weaken the USA.

Your not paying attention both investigations are still active ...
the one against Trump and wiki leaks for collusion with the Russians
and the one against Hillary '' what does it matter now" and the FBI for collusion against a sitting President with a foreign Power ... the UK and Australia. Flynn was not sentenced because he is assisting in several other active Investigations? ...
The current FBI is required as is Mueller to forward all flynn information to other investigators ( not the Trump one ... Mueller is at the sentencing stage in regards to Flynn)
All high level FBI investigators have been replaced since the Russian collusion and Hillary email scandals saga started... with Rod Rosenstein finally going off in the sunset now, after firing some of them
Oh yeah don't forget that the clinton foundation received $US145,000,000 from Russian banks
The only thing in Question is which investigation comes up with the goods... and which one is caught out for sloppiness and negligence I'm happy with the 3 year ones from just before the election
Benghazi the 6 year one can wait till latter...
I get your loathing of a republican style government with a constitution and its explanation of why Trump has not been prosecuted... he will not be before the 2020 election...why waste the headlines
But its not my fault you live under that style of slow government that takes Time and FOIA applications to get to the Truth
If the 'deep state' exists that would depend on the outcome of these investigations and who gets charged
I'm sitting back with Popcorn... waiting for the Mueller report when Trump can declassify the FISA warrants with out being accused of interfering with the Mueller investigation and step across that so called 'Red Line'

 

[Berzerker]

Why is it every time conservatives think someone in power may have committed a crime, we shouldn't be worried about it until he's been convicted...

...but we're still talking about emails that were dismissed by the FBI going on 3 years ago?

We're talking about emails because the Democrats are mad the Russians hacked and publicized them to help Trump get elected. I'm waiting for evidence, not a conviction...and I'm not conservative.

The fact that people can be/have been thieves and governments can be/have been thieves, doesn't mean that all people and all governments are thieves. The fact that we have 51 different tax systems in the US is a demonstration of how varied they can be and how citizens can have an impact on how they are taxed.

The theft is so intertwined in our system its kinda pointless to assign blame, but it does color my perception of 'tax evasion'. Thats not one of those crimes I get upset about. People go to jail for drugs, that is upsetting.

Your sense of taxation as theft is misguided sense of justice. You need to reverse it in your mind a bit. Although we agree in principle about subsiding private enterprise generally ( I make exceptions for research and such), education and welfare are actually helpful to you even if you don't use them. They improve your neighbors lot in life and thus relax the tension in our society. They also give more opportunity to those who put in the effort but otherwise would never be able to get themselves out of the poverty trap. In the latter case much more needs to be done in the US. Its why in the last 40 years we have fallen so much in social versatility, mobility, and stability.

I dont have a problem with education and welfare - I was sent to public schools - but once everyone makes their exceptions the treasury is open for looting. We bailed out the auto industry a few years back, saved jobs etc. Thats theft. It doesn't matter how justifiable the politicians make it sound. I'm not seething mad about it, but when people who got bailed out impose their drug war on the rest of us I get upset.

They're everyone's kids, so everyone is using them. You can't fence off one part of society because it's too poor or black or rural and declare it none-of-my-business, because it will surely make itself your business down the road.

Are you to blame for Donald Trump's sons? Yes, pay taxes or be robbed another way - in truth, be robbed both ways, by the politicians and the criminals we educated. I can still recognize the theft for what it is. Obviously we disagree about the nature of government, 'consent of the governed' limits what I can ask government to do in my name.

Every single country that boosted social spending - on healthcare, education, social security etc - in the post-war period underwent a profound shift (improvement) in incomes and living standards across the board. That required increased taxation,

My life will improve if the politicians give me your money too. I understand the pragmatic reasons for 'redistributing' wealth via taxation, the question is a moral one.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Government and morality are often in conflict.

 

[Berzerker]

True

I see Tulsi Gabbard has thrown her hat in the ring. She's Hindu and apparently not a fan of Islam. She also has an independent streak.

and Julian Castro from the Obama adm is in too.

 

[Zelig]

"Taxes are theft" makes it sound like you don't understand those English words very well.

 

[Imaus]

Castro is a no-name, while Gabbard has some backlog stuff. Whether or not she can 'prevail' over her 'controversies' (some criticism of Israel for the Right and her pro-gun stance for the Left just to start) remains to be seen.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Castro is a no-name, while Gabbard has some backlog stuff. Whether or not she can 'prevail' over her 'controversies' (some criticism of Israel for the Right and her pro-gun stance for the Left just to start) remains to be seen.

Anyone who thinks Castro is a no-name hasn't been paying attention.

 

[Berzerker]

"Taxes are theft" makes it sound like you don't understand those English words very well.

You edited "most" from what I said and then lecture me about understanding English?