2020 US Election (Part One)

[Patine]

You may have noticed that the US abandoned all pretense regarding the need for a casus belli quite some time ago. If we eat Canada and someone says "hey, WTH, why'd you do that?" our most likely reply is a burp.

It hasn't invaded another First World Nation since the term "First World," was coined...

 

[Timsup2nothin]

It hasn't invaded another First World Nation since the term "First World," was coined...

Do you really think a majority of USians would consider Canada to be a first world nation if they were feeling some interest in invading Canada?

 

[adcarrymaokai]

He should have just grabbed them by the genitals.

Oh.

Wait.

That's actually not better!

Is this the part where I share a clip medley of Biden sniffing and sexually touching 12-year-old girls? I know this is a very low bar already, but at least Trump isn't a pedo.

Moderator Action: I think that would be wildly inappropriate, if true. CFC still has standards. ~ Arakhor

 

[Patine]

Do you really think a majority of USians would consider Canada to be a first world nation if they were feeling some interest in invading Canada?

I suppose it's possible. But it's also the American economy collapses irretrievably into the Dark Ages, taking most of the world with it, and ending all of our comfy ways of life. Or Sirius has gone supernova years ago (but it's not visible yet), and pelts the Earth with hard radiation killing us all. Or that the U.S. and Russia declare full war, and the gloves are off, and the exposition to Mad Max, Wasteland, Fallout, Threads, and the Chrysalid emerges. Or a massive meteor comes and wipes us all out. There's lots of possible things to worry sick about that I have no power over. I try not to let them keep me up at night.

but at least Trump isn't a pedo.

No, he likes adult women - usually young ones - but he doesn't always ask for consent.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Is this the part where I share a clip medley of Biden sniffing and sexually touching 12-year-old girls? I know this is a very low bar already, but at least Trump isn't a pedo.

Knock yourself out...just don't expect to be taken real seriously.

 

[Socrates99]

The desire for UHC isn't crazy. It's that plus green new deal plus whatever else.

It's also how you're going to make it happen.

Sanders universal healthcare assumes a lot and it's been priced at 35 trillion over 10 years. That's roughly double the federal budget.

That's just one policy and I don't see tax rises covering it. I would raise taxes, wait a year and see how much you bring in and then go from there.

You also need bi partisan support as eventually the GoP will win another election. You would have to make your policy work and enough GoP voters dependent on it they can't risk sabotaging it.

Yes we have universal healthcare here, we still have private, and we have proportional representation. Bernie would fail here as an effective polititian and couldn't deliver on his policies. That's in one of the most liberal countries in the world and least corrupt.

You have to be realistic in what can be achieved plus have a realistic plan to get the voters to support you.

Alienating your own side and being so hardline compromise is a dirty word with no way to get policy through Congress isn't good strategy.

If Biden wins you can pressure him. Can't do that with Trump.

even the Koch funded study had it at 32 trillion over ten years. I've even seen lower estimates. Where does the 35 trillion number come from?

Not doing anything still costs the American people 36 trillion. How we pay for it has less to do with the budget and more to do where we send the money.

 

[Kyriakos]

Have I ever gotten into an argument with you? I don't really recall. I will verbally beat the crap out of posters who consistently post lies, but that hardly constitutes "almost everybody."

You don't beat anyone. It just gets tiresome for the other person, so they don't bother anymore.
A bit like Trump actually.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Reporter: so tell us, mr. Clownfish, what is the personality of mr. Sea-Anemone?

"The rumors you've heard are all false"

If you are going to stand on "well, he's only nice to you because you don't spew lies constantly, but that's not fair to those who do" I don't expect your argument will go far.

 

[Zardnaar]

even the Koch funded study had it at 32 trillion over ten years. I've even seen lower estimates. Where does the 35 trillion number come from?

Not doing anything still costs the American people 36 trillion. How we pay for it has less to do with the budget and more to do where we send the money.

A poster earlier used the 35 trillion price.

I would be highly sceptical of any polititian who thinks you can double govenment spending.

It's the equvilent of a GoP member claimg they could triple the military budget and repeat Trump's tax cuts but 3 or 4 times bigger.

That's roughly how much 3 trillion a year is. And that's just one of Bernie's policies. I gave severe doubt any tax increase could fund that and even bigger doubts Bernie could get it through Congress even if he won.

 

[Takhisis]

They can always invade Venezuela though.

 

[Socrates99]

A poster earlier used the 35 trillion price.

I would be highly sceptical of any polititian who thinks you can double govenment spending.

It's the equvilent of a GoP member claimg they could triple the military budget and repeat Trump's tax cuts but 3 or 4 times bigger.

That's roughly how much 3 trillion a year is. And that's just one of Bernie's policies. I gave severe doubt any tax increase could fund that and even bigger doubts Bernie could get it through Congress even if he won.

That 35 trillion number is the one Biden keeps using. Not sure where he got it but even Fox News was using the 32 trillion figure a few months ago. Biden is essentially pushing a Republican talking point to undermine someone actually running on the left.

FDR's New Deal did exactly what you're skeptical of and he was re elected three more times.

Since your post was in response to my pet peeve, why do you think NZ can pull it off while the US can't?

 

[Zardnaar]

That 35 trillion number is the one Biden keeps using. Not sure where he got it but even Fox News was using the 32 trillion figure a few months ago. Biden is essentially pushing a Republican talking point to undermine someone actually running on the left.

FDR's New Deal did exactly what you're skeptical of and he was re elected three more times.

Since your post was in response to my pet peeve, why do you think NZ can pull it off while the US can't?

1. Different culture. Different values, more eglartarian, liberal etc. Fair go mentality.

2. NZ was used as a social laboratory since 1890's.

3. Took us decades.

4. Less extremism. Conservatives are 2-4%, far left 5-10%.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

That 35 trillion number is the one Biden keeps using. Not sure where he got it but even Fox News was using the 32 trillion figure a few months ago. Biden is essentially pushing a Republican talking point to undermine someone actually running on the left.

FDR's New Deal did exactly what you're skeptical of and he was re elected three more times.

Since your post was in response to my pet peeve, why do you think NZ can pull it off while the US can't?

US healthcare expenditures in 2017 were 3.5 trillion. Barring change that's 35 trillion for a decade, which is sort of a standard time frame. Obviously, that is nothing to do with "must raise taxes to raise 35 trillion," and it most assuredly isn't "35 trillion a year in new taxes." But that's where the specific number comes from. Paying for ten years of health care services is a 35 trillion dollar question.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Turnout is apparently up in Michigan, despite the coronavirus scare going on. Maybe Bernie pulls off a shocker? Certainly would complicate things... particularly for Warren. I'm thinking the best case scenario for her is Bernie drops out after tonight so she can quickly endorse Biden. If Bernie turns things around tonight, there is going to be more pressure on her to come out for Bernie.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Turnout is apparently up in Michigan, despite the coronavirus scare going on. Maybe Bernie pulls off a shocker? Certainly would complicate things... particularly for Warren. I'm thinking the best case scenario for her is Bernie drops out after tonight so she can quickly endorse Biden. If Bernie turns things around tonight, there is going to be more pressure on her to come out for Bernie.

Turnout was up last week and is attributed as having contributed to Biden doing well. Not saying that will hold, just suggesting that turnout being up in Michigan isn't necessarily good news for Sanders.

 

[Socrates99]

Polling place was a bit dead when I went but that was at 3:30 right after work. Just going off of looks but judging by age and number of piercings I'd be surprised if the girl in front of me was voting Joe.

I should've asked the dude running the counting machine who he thought was doing better. It looked like he was sneaking a peak while feeding the machine.

 

[Gorbles]

What was said is that if a bill labeled "medicare for all" was presented and it was clearly not thought out and would leave people without healthcare he wouldn't sign it. People are genuinely afraid that Sanders hasn't thought through any sort of plan for accomplishing his "medicare for all" so allaying their fears gets votes. It's pretty simple politics.

"He said he would veto any medicare for all" is a bald faced lie.

Sorry, that isn't what the transcript I read said. Despite not having an verified source, do you mind if I provide it?

(wow this thread moved in the past several hours - edit - of course, it's Tuesday US time hah, no wonder)

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Sorry, that isn't what the transcript I read said. Despite not having an verified source, do you mind if I provide it?

(wow this thread moved in the past several hours - edit - of course, it's Tuesday US time hah, no wonder)

Provide transcript if you have one. No problem. The exact words aren't necessarily the point though. It will be impossible to read his answer as "I will veto any medicare for all legislation," and that's just an absurdist claim, but his answer is basic politics speaking...address the fears of the opposed, get more votes. He's not saying "I'm gonna do M4A so if you are afraid of it tough crap and no I'm not explaining it," he's just dealing with the fears in a way that people can feel comfortable with.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Exit polling released for Mississippi and Missouri. Biden by 50 in MS, which is neither a surprise nor a problem for Sanders, but Biden +20 in MO is.

 

[cardgame]

Has anyone ever said that?

Yes.