2020 US Election (Part One)

[Estebonrober]

Sanders also voted for the large crime bill that very much exacerbated the problems with regard to racial inequality surrounding criminal justice. He most certainly has that albatross around his neck.

“It was a different time”

When does the above quote feel viable to you? The culture is shifting and in historical terms it is still shifting dramatically. Compare 2020 to 2000 and we’ve shifted quite a bit culturally then say comparing 1840 to 1650. Just observational point. I’m not sure I disagree with you about the general idea that I want younger candidates then anyone who could have been voting on bills in the 90s.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

It's not so much a different time as a difference in available information. All this gnashing of teeth boils down to "knowing what I know now I don't see how you could have voted that way then." Usually the person in question can honestly say "knowing what I know now I actually wouldn't have voted that way then." That always leaves me feeling like the person with the 'bad record' is probably a better choice than the person who is too stupid to understand that knowledge isn't retroactive.

 

[metatron]

So, we need newborn children to run for office?

Everybody has the same past?

You're not going to find many people who were in federal elected office in the U.S. in the 1990s who didn't vote in favor of at least some of the awful "tough on crime" legislation.

Yep. There's no one who lived through the nineties in an alternate reality. Except maybe @onejayhawk. He's clearly in one now, so he could have been in one then I suppose.

My - hardly veiled - contention is that while what you assereted may be literally and technically true, surely there must be differences.
So we'll pick ourselves some totally random Democrat. I'll draw a name out of a... oh it's Senator Sanders! Isn't that weird?

(You surely know everything i am about to tell you. Just as a precaution i'd like to refresh your memory.)

So in the primary last presidential election's primary campaign it was noted in passing what stark contrast there is how Sanders and his primary opponent spent the '60s, particularly with regards to civil rights. I believe photos of Senator Sanders being arrested by the Chicago PD in the wake of civil rights protestest regarding segregated housing at the University of Chicago featured.
In some moment where there was no empty podium to cover the very serious and self-important people at CNN bothered to ask him about it:

Spoiler :

And he's passing the ball back to Mr. Vanderbilt so softly that it's cringeworthy.
I literally flinched.
Schoolyard imagery?!

The photographs you have seen are from a time when Mr. Sanders was already, well, orphaned, basically. His mother, one Dorothy Glassberg, died before his 21st birthday.
His father had died a few years ealier. He was a first generation immigrant: Elias Ben Yehuda Sanders.
From Western Galicia.
Needless to say the young Mr. Sanders ranked in the bottom percentiles as far the availability of extended family is concerned...
So the first thing that got into his mind was to get his hindparts arrested for protesting housing segregation at the University of Chicago.
Because he "doesn't like bullies".

Anyway, having established that, let's look how Rep. Sanders did, shall we?
Of course there are more pieces to The New Jim Crow, but since we were talking about the '90s there are chiefly three acts of Congress we are interested in.


1. There's S.735 - Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996.
Unfortunatly i don't have a clip for that, but needless to say Rep. Sanders was among the odd 133 nay votes on the bill. I'm sure you're familiar with his comments on capital punnishment.
The state shouldn't kill people... and all that. We'll file it next to he doesn't like bullies, if that's allright with you.
Iirc this is the act where the term "superpredator" was primarilly relevant, btw.


2. Then there's HR 3371 - Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1991.
Here we can check the man's actual words:

Spoiler :

The bill passed 305 to 118.
Among the 305 are 211 Democrats, among others Rep. Wyden and Rep. Schumer.


3. And then there's the crown jewel of the New Jim Crow:
HR. 3355 - The Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994
A grandios bill that did about 27 things (some of which you probably like). It is the crowning achivement of authoritarianism and bigotry in that age of American politics. It is evil enough to be named in one breath with hte great racist Acts of Congressional history.

Here we have Rep. Sanders' comments:

Spoiler :

That's more guarded language as you may notice.
The bill passed 235 to 195. Among the Ayes are 188 Democrats 46 Republicans and one Independent.

Now you may wonder what on earth possessed Representative Sanders to vote for this most hideous of bills.
And i'm going to tell you and you're not going to like it:

Spoiler :

Of course the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 was written in the first place by that other guy.

Point being:
Certainly there are degrees here?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Of course the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 was written in the first place by that other guy.

And voted for by the aforementioned Senator Sanders, as well as supported by a huge majority of the population who generally expect their elected representatives to, well, represent.

Yes, it worked out pretty badly.

How many of the people who are spouting condemnation over it knew at the time how it would work out? None. How many of them are spouting now despite the fact that at the time they were calling for their representatives to represent? Plenty.

Ultimately you do what you can, and continue to try, else all you can do is lay down and die. But anyone who pretends they aren't just as much part of the problem as everyone else is bad news.

 

[metatron]

And voted for by the aforementioned Senator Sanders,

Isn't that priced in with my point?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Isn't that priced in with my point?

It's mostly ignored in your "point," but it makes mine pretty well. No one can honestly say "I've conducted myself with uninterrupted perfection in regards to systemic racism." Any such claimant is a bald faced liar. We've almost all done some things to try to balance the outcomes more fairly, some of which have wound up doing the exact opposite. At the same time we've all mostly unconsciously though sometimes with full knowledge reaped the benefits. That's reality, even for precious Bernie.

 

[metatron]

"I've conducted myself with uninterrupted perfection in regards to systemic racism."

Now look what you've done to the goal posts.

"Guys... guys, does somebody have a good set of binoculars?
Tim screwed this up."

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Now look what you've done to the goal posts.

"Guys... guys, does somebody have a good set of binoculars?
Tim screwed this up."

<hands over the binoculars>

Hey, look, I kept the goal posts in the original context of the exchange with Traitorfish despite your uninvited and dishonest efforts at ... man, I can't think of a word that isn't censor worthy. Using 'ph's and 'que's is so trite.



By the way, quote mining is for...damn, can't think of an appropriate enough word here either.

 

[metatron]

<hands over the binoculars>

Hey, look, I kept the goal posts in the original context of the exchange with Traitorfish despite your uninvited and dishonest efforts at ... man, I can't think of a word that isn't censor worthy. Using 'ph's and 'que's is so trite.



By the way, quote mining is for...damn, can't think of an appropriate enough word here either.

1. I'm pretty much in it from the start of the argument.
2. What you did in reply to TF in posts #1087 and #1086 respectively is a fallacy.
You are making what you want to argue an implied premise, presupposing it as true.
3. You seem upset and appear to wish to inflict name-calling upon me. Apparently because you feel that despite "1" i am not allowed to participate in the conversation.
Not a good look.

The point still is: There's degrees here. Worlds of difference.

 

[Estebonrober]

Now look what you've done to the goal posts.

"Guys... guys, does somebody have a good set of binoculars?
Tim screwed this up."

I sort of follow this discussion up to this point. I lose you here meta. It seems like you are making my point about a different time, but then trash Tim because he sort of agrees with that premise while at the same time thinking you can still suck because of your decisions in that time. Seems coherent to me even if I am more forgiving.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

1. I'm pretty much in it from the start of the argument.
2. What you did in reply to TF in posts #1087 and #1086 respectively is a fallacy.
You are making what you want to argue an implied premise, presupposing it as true.
3. You seem upset and appear to wish to inflict name-calling upon me. Apparently because you feel that despite "1" i am not allowed to participate in the conversation.
Not a good look.

The point still is: There's degrees here. Worlds of difference.

LOL...the world seems full of clowns who can judge when someone else is upset even from thousands of miles away. Perhaps it is just wish fulfillment? Like, when you are a barely capable wanna be troll you really need to believe people are upset by your attempts to be upsetting. Is that the trick? For the record, courtesy of the US navy I'm probably well into 'borderline,' and perhaps I'm just a straight up sociopath. I can break bones and peel skin just because I think it needs to be done without ever losing my temper...or even taking it out of my pocket. So, no, when I want to call you names you should assume it is because I think it makes my point, not because I'm upset. When you engage in obviously dishonest conversation I see no reason to do anything else with you but call you names. Think of it as a win win. You get the satisfaction of telling yourself that you succeeded in your trollery, and I get the amusement value of calling you names in front of people who generally agree with me.

As to your point, yeah, I already nominally agreed that there are degrees. In fact, before it was 'yours' that was my basic point. The people who are crying for a 'pure as driven snow' record are limited to newborns, or, like you, they can make these dishonest cases for someone like Bernie and pretend them into a purity they can't even pull off for themselves.

 

[metatron]

Like, when you are a barely capable wanna be troll you really need to believe people are upset by your attempts to be upsetting. Is that the trick? For the record, courtesy of the US navy I'm probably well into 'borderline,' and perhaps I'm just a straight up sociopath. I can break bones and peel skin just because I think it needs to be done without ever losing my temper...or even taking it out of my pocket.

1. Uhm... yeah... what? Sorry, what were you talking about.
2. Toxic masculinity much?
3. Now you really sound upset.

Think of it as a win

Ok.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

1. Uhm... yeah... what? Sorry, what were you talking about.

I was talking about how internet trolls are driven by a desperate need to believe they are upsetting people. I'm surprised that was too complex for you to follow.

 

[sophie]

See, it wasn't called that at the time; at least that way of framing things hadn't won wide circulation and acceptance.

By white folks, maybe.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

By white folks, maybe.

Or black folks either. Let's try not to rewrite history to frame a narrative, eh?

 

[sophie]

Malcolm X talked about it:

It's just like when you've got some coffee that's too black, which means it's too strong. What you do? You integrate it with cream; you make it weak. If you pour too much cream in, you won't even know you ever had coffee. It used to be hot, it becomes cool. It used to be strong, it becomes weak. It used to wake you up, now it'll put you to sleep. This is what they did with the march on Washington. They joined it. They didn't integrate it; they infiltrated it. They joined it, became a part of it, took it over. And as they took it over, it lost its militancy. They ceased to be angry. They ceased to be hot. They ceased to be uncompromising. Why, it even ceased to be a march. It became a picnic, a circus. Nothing but a circus, with clowns and all. You had one right here in Detroit — I saw it on television — with clowns leading it, white clowns and black clowns. I know you don’t like what I'm saying, but I’m going to tell you anyway. 'Cause I can prove what I'm saying. If you think I'm telling you wrong, you bring me Martin Luther King and A. Philip Randolph and James Farmer and those other three, and see if they'll deny it over a microphone.

If you stick a knife in my back nine inches and pull it out six inches, there's no progress. If you pull it all the way out that's not progress. Progress is healing the wound that the blow made. And they haven't even pulled the knife out much less heal the wound. They won't even admit the knife is there.

We are African, and we happened to be in America. We're not American. We are people who formerly were Africans who were kidnapped and brought to America. Our forefathers weren't the Pilgrims. We didn't land on Plymouth Rock. The rock was landed on us. We were brought here against our will. We were not brought here to be made citizens. We were not brought here to enjoy the constitutional gifts that they speak so beautifully about today.

[quote4]They [America] don't practice what they preach, whereas South Africa preaches and practices the same thing. I have more respect for a man who lets me know where he stands, even if he's wrong, than the one who comes up like an angel and is nothing but a devil.[/quote]

The press is so powerful in its image-making role, it can make the criminal look like he's a the victim and make the victim look like he's the criminal. This is the press, an irresponsible press. It will make the criminal look like he's the victim and make the victim look like he's the criminal. If you aren't careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.
If you aren't careful, because I've seen some of you caught in that bag, you run away hating yourself and loving the man — while you're catching hell from the man. You let the man maneuver you into thinking that it's wrong to fight him when he's fighting you. He's fighting you in the morning, fighting you in the noon, fighting you at night and fighting you all in between, and you still think it's wrong to fight him back. Why? The press. The newspapers make you look wrong.

I’m not here to argue or discuss anything that we differ about, because it’s time for us to submerge our differences and realize that it is best for us to first see that we have the same problem, a common problem, a problem that will make you catch hell whether you’re a Baptist, or a Methodist, or a Muslim, or a nationalist. Whether you’re educated or illiterate, whether you live on the boulevard or in the alley, you’re going to catch hell just like I am. We’re all in the same boat and we all are going to catch the same hell from the same man. He just happens to be a white man. All of us have suffered here, in this country, political oppression at the hands of the white man, economic exploitation at the hands of the white man, and social degradation at the hands of the white man.

No, I’m not an American. I’m one of the 22 million black people who are the victims of Americanism. One of the 22 million black people who are the victims of democracy, nothing but disguised hypocrisy. So, I’m not standing here speaking to you as an American, or a patriot, or a flag-saluter, or a flag-waver—no, not I. I’m speaking as a victim of this American system. And I see America through the eyes of the victim. I don’t see any American dream; I see an American nightmare.

What is a Dixiecrat? A Democrat. A Dixiecrat is nothing but a Democrat in disguise. [...] The Dixiecrats in Washington, D.C., control the key committees that run the government. The only reason the Dixiecrats control these committees is because they have seniority. The only reason they have seniority is because they come from states where Negroes can’t vote. This is not even a government that’s based on democracy. It is not a government that is made up of representatives of the people. Half of the people in the South can’t even vote. Eastland is not even supposed to be in Washington. Half of the senators and congressmen who occupy these key positions in Washington, D.C., are there illegally, are there unconstitutionally. These senators and congressmen actually violate the constitutional amendments that guarantee the people of that particular state or county the right to vote. And the Constitution itself has within it the machinery to expel any representative from a state where the voting rights of the people are violated. You don’t even need new legislation. Any person in Congress right now, who is there from a state or a district where the voting rights of the people are violated, that particular person should be expelled from Congress. And when you expel him, you’ve removed one of the obstacles in the path of any real meaningful legislation in this country. In fact, when you expel them, you don’t need new legislation, because they will be replaced by black representatives from counties and districts where the black man is in the majority, not in the minority.

You and I in America are faced not with a segregationist conspiracy, we’re faced with a government conspiracy. Everyone who’s filibustering is a senator—that’s the government. Everyone who’s finagling in Washington, D.C., is a congressman—that’s the government. You don’t have anybody putting blocks in your path but people who are a part of the government. The same government that you go abroad to fight for and die for is the government that is in a conspiracy to deprive you of your voting rights, deprive you of your economic opportunities, deprive you of decent housing, deprive you of decent education. You don’t need to go to the employer alone, it is the government itself, the government of America, that is responsible for the oppression and exploitation and degradation of black people in this country. And you should drop it in their lap. This government has failed the Negro. This so-called democracy has failed the Negro. And all these white liberals have definitely failed the Negro.

You and I, 22 million African-Americans — that's what we are — Africans who are in America. You're nothing but Africans. Nothing but Africans. In fact, you'd get farther calling yourself African instead of Negro. Africans don't catch hell. You're the only one catching hell. They don't have to pass civil-rights bills for Africans.

The philosophy of black nationalism involves a re-education program in the black community in regards to economics. Our people have to be made to see that any time you take your dollar out of your community and spend it in a community where you don’t live, the community where you live will get poorer and poorer, and the community where you spend your money will get richer and richer. [...] If we own the stores, if we operate the businesses, if we try and establish some industry in our own community, then we’re developing to the position where we are creating employment for our own kind. Once you gain control of the economy of your own community, then you don’t have to picket and boycott and beg some cracker downtown for a job in his business.

Don’t change the white man’s mind—you can’t change his mind, and that whole thing about appealing to the moral conscience of America—America’s conscience is bankrupt. She lost all conscience a long time ago. Uncle Sam has no conscience. They don’t know what morals are. They don’t try and eliminate an evil because it’s evil, or because it’s illegal, or because it’s immoral; they eliminate it only when it threatens their existence. So you’re wasting your time appealing to the moral conscience of a bankrupt man like Uncle Sam. If he had a conscience, he’d straighten this thing out with no more pressure being put upon him. So it is not necessary to change the white man’s mind.

A segregated school system produces children who, when they graduate, graduate with crippled minds. But this does not mean that a school is segregated because it’s all black. A segregated school means a school that is controlled by people who have no real interest in it whatsoever. Let me explain what I mean. A segregated district or community is a community in which people live, but outsiders control the politics and the economy of that community. They never refer to the white section as a segregated community. It’s the all-Negro section that’s a segregated community. Why? The white man controls his own school, his own bank, his own economy, his own politics, his own everything, his own community; but he also controls yours. When you’re under someone else’s control, you’re segregated.

So our people not only have to be re-educated to the importance of supporting black business, but the black man himself has to be made aware of the importance of going into business. And once you and I go into business, we own and operate at least the businesses in our community. What we will be doing is developing a situation wherein we will actually be able to create employment for the people in the community. And once you can create some employment in the community where you live it will eliminate the necessity of you and me having to act ignorantly and disgracefully, boycotting and picketing some place else trying to beg him for a job. Anytime you have to rely upon your enemy for a job you’re in bad shape.

Usually the black racist has been produced by the white racist. In most cases where you see it, it is the reaction to white racism, and if you analyze it closely, it's not really black racism... If we react to white racism with a violent reaction, to me that's not black racism. If you come to put a rope around my neck and I hang you for it, to me that's not racism. Yours is racism, but my reaction has nothing to do with racism...

I do believe that there will be a clash between East and West. I believe that there will be a clash between those who want freedom, justice and equality for everyone and those who want to continue the systems of exploitation. I believe that there will be that kind of clash, but I don't think that it will be based upon the color of the skin….

It's impossible for a white person to believe in capitalism and not believe in racism. You can't have capitalism without racism.

Martin Luther King Jr. talked about it:

We want to rely upon the goodwill of those who oppose us. Indeed, we have brought forward the method of nonviolence to give an example of unilateral goodwill in an effort to evoke it in those who have not yet felt it in their hearts. But we know that if we are not simultaneously organizing our strength we will have no means to move forward. If we do not advance, the crushing burden of centuries of neglect and economic deprivation will destroy our will, our spirits and our hope. In this way, labor's historic tradition of moving forward to create vital people as consumers and citizens has become our own tradition, and for the same reasons.

Our whole campaign in Alabama has been centered around the right to vote. In focusing the attention of the nation and the world today on the flagrant denial of the right to vote, we are exposing the very origin, the root cause, of racial segregation in the Southland. Racial segregation as a way of life did not come about as a natural result of hatred between the races immediately after the Civil War. There were no laws segregating the races then. And as the noted historian, C. Vann Woodward, in his book, The Strange Career of Jim Crow, clearly points out, the segregation of the races was really a political stratagem employed by the emerging Bourbon interests in the South to keep the southern masses divided and southern labor the cheapest in the land. You see, it was a simple thing to keep the poor white masses working for near-starvation wages in the years that followed the Civil War. Why, if the poor white plantation or mill worker became dissatisfied with his low wages, the plantation or mill owner would merely threaten to fire him and hire former Negro slaves and pay him even less. Thus, the southern wage level was kept almost unbearably low. Toward the end of the Reconstruction era, something very significant happened. That is what was known as the Populist Movement. The leaders of this movement began awakening the poor white masses and the former Negro slaves to the fact that they were being fleeced by the emerging Bourbon interests. Not only that, but they began uniting the Negro and white masses into a voting bloc that threatened to drive the Bourbon interests from the command posts of political power in the South. To meet this threat, the southern aristocracy began immediately to engineer this development of a segregated society. I want you to follow me through here because this is very important to see the roots of racism and the denial of the right to vote. Through their control of mass media, they revised the doctrine of white supremacy. They saturated the thinking of the poor white masses with it, thus clouding their minds to the real issue involved in the Populist Movement. They then directed the placement on the books of the South of laws that made it a crime for Negroes and whites to come together as equals at any level. And that did it. That crippled and eventually destroyed the Populist Movement of the nineteenth century.

It is easier for a Negro to understand a social paradox because he has lived so long with evils that could be eradicated but were perpetuated by indifference or ignorance. The Negro finally had to devise unique methods to deal with his problem, and perhaps the measure of success he is realizing can be an inspiration to others coping with tenacious social problems. In our struggle for equality we were confronted with the reality that many millions of people were essentially ignorant of our conditions or refused to face unpleasant truths. The hard-core bigot was merely one of our adversaries. The millions who were blind to our plight had to be compelled to face the social evil their indifference permitted to flourish.

During the past half century Negroes have migrated on a massive scale, transplanting millions from rural communities to crammed urban ghettoes. In their migration, as with all migrants, they carried with them the folkways of the countryside into an inhospitable city slum. The size of family that may have been appropriate and tolerable on a manually cultivated farm was carried over to the jammed streets of the ghetto. In all respects Negroes were atomized, neglected and discriminated against. Yet, the worst omission was the absence of institutions to acclimate them to their new environment. Margaret Sanger, who offered an important institutional remedy, was unfortunately ignored by social and political leaders in this period. In consequence, Negro folkways in family size persisted. The problem was compounded when unrestrained exploitation and discrimination accented the bewilderment of the newcomer, and high rates of illegitimacy and fragile family relationships resulted.

For the Negro, therefore, intelligent guides of family planning are a profoundly important ingredient in his quest for security and a decent life. There are mountainous obstacles still separating Negroes from a normal existence. Yet one element in stabilizing his life would be an understanding of and easy access to the means to develop a family related in size to his community environment and to the income potential he can command. This is not to suggest that the Negro will solve all his problems through Planned Parenthood. His problems are far more complex, encompassing economic security, education, freedom from discrimination, decent housing and access to culture. Yet if family planning is sensible it can facilitate or at least not be an obstacle to the solution of the many profound problems that plague him.

The Negro constitutes half the poor of the nation. Like all poor, Negro and white, they have many unwanted children. This is a cruel evil they urgently need to control. There is scarcely anything more tragic in human life than a child who is not wanted. That which should be a blessing becomes a curse for parent and child. There is nothing inherent in the Negro mentality which creates this condition. Their poverty causes it. When Negroes have been able to ascend economically, statistics reveal they plan their families with even greater care than whites. Negroes of higher economic and educational status actually have fewer children than white families in the same circumstances.

To a degree, we have been attacking the problem by increasing purchasing power through higher wage scales and increased Social Security benefits. But these measures are exercised with restraint and come only as a consequence of organized struggles…Those at the lowest economic level, the poor white, the Negro, the aged, are traditionally unorganized and have little or no ability to force a growth in their consumer potential. They stagnate or become even poorer in relation to the larger society.

Now, in order to answer the question, "Where do we go from here?" which is our theme, we must first honestly recognize where we are now. When the Constitution was written, a strange formula to determine taxes and representation declared that the Negro was sixty percent of a person. Today another curious formula seems to declare that he is fifty percent of a person. Of the good things in life, the Negro has approximately one half those of whites. of the bad things of life, he has twice those of whites. Thus half of all Negroes live in substandard housing. And Negroes have half the income of whites. When we view the negative experiences of life, the Negro has a double share. There are twice as many unemployed. The rate of infant mortality among Negroes is double that of whites and there are twice as many Negroes dying in Vietnam as whites in proportion to their size in the population.

Communism forgets that life is individual. Capitalism forgets that life is social, and the kingdom of brotherhood is found neither in the thesis of communism nor the antithesis of capitalism but in a higher synthesis. It is found in a higher synthesis that combines the truths of both. Now, when I say question the whole society, it means ultimately coming to see that the problem of racism, the problem of exploitation, and the problem of war are all tied together. These are the triple evils that are interrelated.

When the majority of the country could not live with the extremes of brutality they witnessed, political remedies were enacted and customs were altered. / These partial advances were, however, limited principally to the South and progress did not automatically spread throughout the nation. There was also little depth to the changes. White America stopped murder, but that is not the same thing as ordaining brotherhood; nor is the ending of lynch rule the same thing as inaugurating justice.

Negroes could contain their rage when they found the means to force relatively radical changes in their environment. / In the North, on the other hand, street demonstrations were not even a mild expression of militancy. The turmoil of cities absorbs demonstrations as merely transitory drama which is ordinary in city life. Without a more effective tactic for upsetting the status quo, the power structure could maintain its intransigence and hostility.

A profound judgment of today's riots was expressed by Victor Hugo a century ago. He said, 'If a soul is left in the darkness, sins will be committed. The guilty one is not he who commits the sin, but he who causes the darkness.' / The policymakers of the white society have caused the darkness; they create discrimination; they structured slums; and they perpetuate unemployment, ignorance and poverty. It is incontestable and deplorable that Negroes have committed crimes; but they are derivative crimes. They are born of the greater crimes of the white society. When we ask Negroes to abide by the law, let us also demand that the white man abide by law in the ghettos.

The slums are the handiwork of a vicious system of the white society; Negroes live in them but do not make them any more than a prisoner makes a prison.

The problem is deep. It is gigantic in extent, and chaotic in detail. And I do not believe that it will be solved until there is a kind of cosmic discontent enlarging in the bosoms of people of good will all over this nation.

I'm absolutely convinced that a riot merely intensifies the fears of the white community while relieving the guilt. And I feel that we must always work with an effective, powerful weapon and method that brings about tangible results. But it is not enough for me to stand before you tonight and condemn riots. It would be morally irresponsible for me to do that without, at the same time, condemning the contingent, intolerable conditions that exist in our society. These conditions are the things that cause individuals to feel that they have no other alternative than to engage in violent rebellions to get attention. And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the negro poor has worsened over the last twelve or fifteen years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice and humanity.

Stevie Wonder sang about it:

A boy is born in hard time Mississippi
Surrounded by four walls that ain't so pretty
His parents give him love and affection
To keep him strong moving in the right direction
Living just enough, just enough for the city
[Verse 2]
His father works some days for fourteen hours
And you can bet he barely makes a dollar
His mother goes to scrub the floors for many
And you'd best believe she hardly gets a penny
Living just enough, just enough for the city (yeah)
[Verse 3]
His sister's black but she is sho 'nuff pretty
Her skirt is short but Lord her legs are sturdy
To walk to school she's got to get up early
Her clothes are old but never are they dirty
Living just enough, just enough for the city (um-hum)
[Verse 4]
Her brother's smart he's got more sense than many
His patience's long but soon he won't have any
To find a job is like a haystack needle
Because where he lives they don't use colored people
Living just enough, just enough for the city

Bus for New York City!
Hey, bus driver! I'm getting on that, hold it
Thanks a lot
Wow, New York, just like I pictured it
Skyscrapers and everything
Hey hey brother, hey come here slick
Hey you look, you look hip man
Hey you wanna make yourself five bucks man
You look hip
Run this across the street for me right quick
Okay, run this across the street for me
What? Huh? I didn’t know! What?
Gimme your hands up you punk!
I’m just going across the street
Put that leg up, shut your mouth
Hell no, what did I do?
Okay, turn around, turn around
Put your hands behind your back, let’s go, let’s go
A jury of your peers having found you guilty, ten years
What?
Come on, come on, get in that cell nigga, god, lord

His hair is long, his feet are hard and gritty
He spends his life walking the streets of New York City
He's almost dead from breathing in air pollution
He tried and fought but to him there's no solution
Living just enough, just enough for the city
[Verse 6]
I hope you hear inside my voice of sorrow
And that it motivates you to make a better tomorrow
This place is cruel nowhere could be much colder
If we don't change, the world will soon be over
Living just enough, stop giving just enough for the city

Curtis Mayfield sang about it:

I'm your mama, I'm your daddy
I'm that nigga in the alley
I'm your doctor, when in need
Want some coke, have some weed
You know me, I'm your friend
Your main boy, thick and thin
I'm your pusherman
I'm your pusherman

Ha ha

Ain't I clean, bad machine
Super cool, super mean
Feelin' good, for the man
Superfly, here I stand
Secret stash, heavy bread
Baddest *****es, in the bed

I'm your pusherman
I'm your pusherman
I'm your pusherman

Solid life, of crime
A man of odd circumstance
A victim of ghetto demands
Feed me money for [style]
And I'll let you trip for a while
Insecure from the past
How long can a good thing last?
Woohoo, no
Got to be mellow, y'all
Gotta be mellow now
Pusherman gettin' mellow y'all

Heavy mind, have you signed?
Makin' money all the time
My instructs me
For all junkies to see
Ghetto prince is my thing
Makin' love's how I swing
I'm your pusherman
I'm your pusherman

Too bad, [splee]
For a generous fee
Make you world what
you want it to be
Got a woman I love desperately
Wanna give her something better than me
Been told I can't be nothin' else
Just a hustler in spite of myself
I know I can rake it
This life just don't make it
Lord, lord
Got to get mellow now
Gotta be mellow, y'all
Got to get mellow now

I'm your mama, I'm your daddy
I'm that nigga in the alley
I'm your doctor, when in need
Want some coke, have some weed
You know me, I'm your friend
Your main boy, thick and thin
I'm your pusherman
I'm your pusherman

NWA rapped about it

NSFW: You know what I'm linking

Spoiler :

Right about now, N.W.A. court is in full effect
Judge Dre presiding
In the case of N.W.A. vs. the Police Department
Prosecuting attorneys are: MC Ren, Ice Cube,
And Eazy motherfudgin E
Order, order, order
Ice Cube, take the motherfudgin stand
Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth
And nothin but the truth so help your black ass?

You god damn right!

Well won't you tell everybody what the fudge you gotta say?
fudge the police comin' straight from the underground
A young nigga got it bad 'cause I'm brown
And not the other color so police think
They have the authority to kill a minority
fudge that ****, 'cause I ain't the one
For a punk ************ with a badge and a gun
To be beatin' on, and thrown in jail
We can go toe to toe in the middle of a cell
fudgin' with me cause I'm a teenager
With a little bit of gold and a pager
Searchin' my car, lookin' for the product
Thinkin' every nigga is sellin' narcotics
You'd rather see, me in the pen
Than me and Lorenzo rollin' in a Benz-o
Beat a police out of shape
And when I'm finished, bring the yellow tape
To tape off the scene of the slaughter
Still gettin' swoll off bread and water
I don't know if they fags or what
Search a nigga down, and grabbin' his nuts
And on the other hand, without a gun they can't get none
But don't let it be a black and a white one
'Cause they'll slam ya down to the street top
Black police showin' out for the white cop
Ice Cube will swarm
On any ************ in a blue uniform
Just cause I'm from, the CPT
Punk police are afraid of me!
Huh, a young nigga on the warpath
And when I'm finished, it's gonna be a bloodbath
Of cops, dyin' in L.A.
Yo Dre, I got somethin' to say

fudge the police
fudge the police
fudge the police
fudge the Police

Pull your god damn ass over right now
Aww ****, now what the fudge you pullin' me over for?
'Cause I feel like it!
Just sit your ass on the curb and shut the fudge up
Man, fudge this ****
Aight smart ass, I'm takin' your black ass to jail!

MC Ren, will you please give your testimony
To the jury about this fudged up incident?

fudge the police and Ren said it with authority
Because the niggas on the street is a majority
A gang, is with whoever I'm steppin'
And the motherfudgin' weapon is kept in
A stash box, for the so-called law
Wishin' Ren was a nigga that they never saw
Lights start flashin' behind me
But they're scared of a nigga so they mace me to blind me
But that **** don't work, I just laugh
Because it gives em a hint, not to step in my path
For police, I'm sayin, "fudge you punk!"
Readin' my rights and ****, it's all junk
Pullin' out a silly club, so you stand
With a fake-assed badge and a gun in your hand
But take off the gun so you can see what's up
And we'll go at it punk, and I'm a fudge you up!
Make you think I'm a kick your ass
But drop your gat, and Ren's gonna blast
I'm sneaky as fudge when it comes to crime
But I'm a smoke 'em now and not next time
Smoke any ************ that sweats me
Or any *******, that threatens me
I'm a sniper with a hell of a scope
Takin' out a cop or two, they can't cope with me
The motherfudgin' villain that's mad
With potential, to get bad as fudge
So I'm a turn it around
Put in my clip, yo, and this is the sound
Yeah, somethin' like that
But it all depends on the size of the gat
Takin' out a police, would make my day
But a nigga like Ren don't give a fudge to say

fudge the police
fudge the police
fudge the police
fudge the Police

Yeah man, what you need?
Police, open now
Aww ****
We have a warrant for Eazy-E's arrest
Get down and put your hands up where I can see 'em
(Move ************, move now!)
What the fudge did I do, man what did I do?
Just shut the fudge up
And get your motherfudgin' ass on the floor
(You heard the man, shut the fudge up!)
But I didn't do ****
Man just shut the fudge up!

Eazy-E, won't you step up to the stand
And tell the jury how you feel about this bullfeathers?

I'm tired of the motherfudgin jackin
Sweatin my gang, while I'm chillin in the shack, and
Shinin the light in my face, and for what?
Maybe it's because I kick so much butt
I kick ass, or maybe cause I blast
On a stupid-assed nigga when I'm playin with the trigger
Of any Uzi or an AK
'Cause the police always got somethin stupid to say
They put out my picture with silence
'Cause my identity by itself causes violence
The E with the criminal behavior
Yeah, I'm a gangsta, but still I got flavor
Without a gun and a badge, what do ya got?
A sucker in a uniform waitin to get shot
By me, or another nigga
And with a gat it don't matter if he's smaller or bigger
(Size ain't ****, he's from the old school fool)
And as you all know, E's here to rule
Whenever I'm rollin, keep lookin in the mirror
And ears on cue, yo, so I can hear a
Dumb ************ with a gun
And if I'm rollin off the 8, he'll be the one
That I take out, and then get away
While I'm drivin off laughin this is what I'll say

fudge the police
fudge the police
fudge the police
fudge the Police

The verdict
The jury has found you guilty of being a redneck,
White bread, chicken **** ************
But wait, that's a lie! That's a god damn lie!
Get him out of here!
I want justice!
Get him the fudge out my face!
I want justice!
Out, right now!
fudge you, you black mother fudgers!

fudge the police
fudge the police
fudge the police

Dr Dre rapped about it:
Again, NSFW because it's DRE

Spoiler :

I'ma say this and I'ma end mine.
If you ain't down for the Africans here in the United States, period point blank.
If you ain't down for the ones that suffer in South Africa
From apartheid and ****. Damn it you need to
Step your punk ass to the side and let us brothers and us Africans step in
And start putting some funk in that ass

Break em off something
Break em off something
Break em off something
Break em off something
Break em off something
Break em off something
Break em off something
Break em off something

I got my finger on the trigger so niggas wonder why
But living in the city it's do-or-die
I got my finger on the trigger so niggas wonder why
But living in the city it's do-or-die

They wonder where me bailing and don't really understand
The reason why me take me law in me own hand
Me not out for peace and me not Rodney King
Me gun goes click, me gun goes bang
Them riot in Compton and them riot in Long Beach
Them riot in they Lakers and don't really wanna see
Niggas start to loot and police start to shoot
Lock us down at seven o'clock, barricade us like Beirut
Me don't show no love cause it's us against them
Them never ever love me cause it's sport to break the,
And kill at my own risk if I may
Delay to spray with my AK and put it to rest

Yes we have. There have been riots, rioting, well I don't wanna say
Rioting but there's been looting downtown, but right now Bree, what I want
To show you is, they have started fires down at the end of the street

How many niggas are ready to loot?
Yeah, so what you wanna do?
What you wanna do?
I said how many niggas are ready to loot?
Got myself an Uzi and my brother a 9

What they told us today, in other words,
You're still a slave. No matter how
Much money you got, you still ain't ****

Sitting in my living room calm and collected
Feeling that gotta get mine perspective
'Cause I just heard broke me in half
And half the niggas I know, plus the niggas on the Row, is bailing
Laugh now but cry much later
Ya see when niggas get together they get mad cuz they can't fade us
Like my niggas from South Central, Los Angeles
They find that they couldn't handle us
Bloods, Crips on the same squad
With the Ese's thumpin, nigga it's time ta rob and mob
(And break the white man off somthing lovely, biddy-bye-bye
I don't love them so they can't love me)
Yo straight putting down getting my scoot on
Let's jump in off in Compton so I gots ta get my loot on
And come up on me some furniture or something
Got a VCR
In the back of my car
That I ganked from the Slauson Swap Meet
And motherfudgers better not try to stop me
'Cause they will see that I can't be stopped
'Cause I'ma cock my Glock and pop til they all drop

There has been videotape and you can see of the, aah, some of the crowd
Throwing things at the officers
And swinging at them as well. Like there was a young woman there.
You see she took a swing at an officer with some object in her hand

How many niggas are ready to loot?
Yeah, so what you wanna do?
What you wanna do?
I said how many niggas are ready to loot?
Got myself an Uzi and my brother a 9

I got my finger on the trigger so niggas wonder why
But living in the city it's do-or-die
I got my finger on the trigger so niggas wonder why
But living in the city it's do-or-die
One-time trigger happy, no nigga love
187 time, time to grab the glove
Can't get prints so a 9 I throw away
Or get prints so my Uzi witta spray
POP POP POP another ************ drop
And I get relief like Pop, pop, fizz.
Smash, I crashed his head like a window
I ain't no dead do', I'm high off the indo
Creeping with the quickness to the cut
Bust one to his head while he munches on that donut
And cracker so now he best to back up
I guess I gots ta pack up, filling the clip up, I zip up-
Town, the motherfudging cops are all around
Helicopters flying
These motherfudgers trying
To catch me and stretch me on Death Row
But hell no's the poor black refuse to go

This is now covers a very, very wide area of Los Angeles where these
Fires have been, aah, ignited. I mean, from here to the, aah, to the south
End of South Central is a long way

Break em off something
Break em off something
Break em off something
Break em off something
Break em off something
Break em off something
Break em off something
Break em off something

The outcome of this is destruction so the more fall
Niggas don't give a fudge so them bust and before
Niggas backing up three black shows
No justice so they copied ya right
And here I am again, me, turn the other cheek, me
Be too many wigs got me 9 to my tights
So me bust, flick cause he don't give a fudge
And me don't give a fudging of my problems
In with their fudge fudge

Blak blam, blam to them fall
Listen to the shots from my nigga Doggy Dogg, biddy-bye
Dr Dre him bust gun shots
Diggity Daz and RBX them bust gun shots
Come again!

Ice Cube joked about it:
NSFW, because, again, obviously

Spoiler :

[Woman #1:]
I was raised to be white-black, I was raised to be equal to anyone. Listening to you, you are so prejudiced I just can't believe it! I am shocked! You're scaring me!

[Woman #2:]
What is he saying that you have a problem with?
What is he saying that you have a problem with?

[Woman #3:]
What scares us is I think we hear violence

[Woman #4:]
I Think you don't know what the fudge it is you talkin' about

[Woman #3:]
I'm so scared to go out in the world next year, because I was never a prejudice person until listening to you, it's really scary hearing what you're saying, I'm very scared!

[Woman #2:]
What is he saying that you have a problem with?
What is he saying that you have a problem with?

[Woman #3:]
What scares us is I think we hear violence

[Woman #4:]
I Think you don't know what the fudge it is you talkin' about

[Woman #3:]
They're saying questions about us fearing, white people fearing, you know, what will the black folks do and stuff, we should be running down the streets, screaming and ranting and raving cause when you look at the statistics, Who is the one dying? From the policemen? From the KKK? From the skinheads?

[Woman #3:]
What scares us is I think we hear violence

[Woman #2:]
What is he saying that you have a problem with? And why is it when a black man stands up to speak for his people, and all the people stand up to speak for their people, there's no problem with it?
But you saying
He said "black", he said "jew"
When people talk... they talk like that
But why is it when a black man stands up to speak for his people, you feel so threatened? Everybody's paranoid?
And you talk about black segregation? We live in Harlem and we live in Watts. We live in Bedford–Stuyvesant. That's a form of segregation. We walk through Bensonhurst. We get killed. So what are you talking about?

Public Enemy rapped about it:

I'm addin' woes
That's how da way it goes
Then you think I rank never drank, point blank
I own loans

Suckers got me runnin' from the bank
Civil liberty I can't see to pay a fee
I never saw a way to pay a sap
To read the law

Then become a victim of a lawyer
Don't know ya, never saw ya
Tape cued
Gettin' me sued

Playin' games wit' my head
What the judge said put me in the red
Got me thinkin' 'bout a trigger to the lead
No no

My education mind say
Suckers gonna pay
Anyway
There gonna be a day

'Cause the troop they roll in
To posse up
Whole from the ground
Ready to go

Throw another round
Sick of the ride
It's suicide
For the other side of town

When I find a way to shut 'em down
Who count the money
In da neighborhood
But we spendin' money

To no end lookin' for a friend
In a war to the core
Rippin' up the poor in da stores
Till they get a brother

Kickin' down doors
Then I figure I kick it bigger
Look 'em dead in the eye
And they wince

Defense is pressurized
They don't want it to be
Another racial attack
In disguise so give some money back

I like Nike but wait a minute
The neighborhood supports so put some
Money in it
Corporations owe

Dey gotta give up the dough
To da town
Or else
We gotta shut 'em down

Public Enemy rapped about it

Going, going, gone
Now I dialed 911 a long time ago
Don't you see how late they're reacting
They only come and they come when they wanna
So get the morgue truck and embalm the goner
They don't care cause they stay paid anyway
They treat you like an ace they can't be betrayed
A no-use number with no-use people
If your life is on the line then you're dead today
Latecomers with the late coming stretcher
That's a body bag in disguise y'all, I'll betcha
I call 'em body snatchers cause they come to fetch ya
With an autopsy ambulance just to dissect ya
They are the kings cause they swing amputation
Lose your arms, your legs to them it's compilation
I can prove it to you watch the rotation
It all adds up to a fudged up situation

Everyday they don't never come correct
You can ask my man right here with the broken neck
He's a witness to the job never being done
He would've been in full effect
But late 911 was a joke cause they only joking
They the token to your life when it's croaking
They need to be in a pawn shop on a
911 is a joke we don't want 'em
I call a cab cause a cab will come quicker
The doctors huddle up and call a flea flicker
Reason why I say that cause they flick you off like fleas
They be laughing at you while you're crawling on your knees
And to the strength so go the length
Thinkin' you are first when you really are tenth
You better wake up and smell the real flavor
Cause 911 is a fake life saver

Public Enemy rapped about it a lot:

Bass in your face, not an eight track
Gettin' it good to the wood
So the people give you some of that reactin' to the facts
That I kick and it stick and it stay around
Pointin' to the joint, put the Buddha down
Goin, goin, deep to the roots
Ain't givin' it up, so turn me loose
But then again I got a story that's harder than the hardcore
Cost of the holocaust, I'm talkin' 'bout the one still goin' on
I know where I'm from, not dum diddie dum
From the base motherland, the place of the drum
Invaded by the wack diddie wack
And fooled the black, and left us faded
King and chief, probably had a big beef
Because of that now I grit my teeth
So here's a song to the strong
'Bout the shake of the snake and the smile went along
With that, can't truss it

Kickin' wicked rhymes like a fortune teller
Cause the wickedness done by Jack
Where everybody at divided and sold
For liquor and the gold
Smacked in the back for the other man to mack

Now the story that I'm kickin' is gory
Little Rock where they be dockin' this boat
No hope, I'm shackled, oh plus, gang tackled
By the other hand swingin' the rope "god damn"
Wearin' red, white and blue, Jack and his crew
The guy's authorized beat down for the brown
Man to the man, each one, so I teach one
Born to terrorize sisters and every brother
One love who said it, I know Whodini sang it
But the hater taught hate that's why we gang bang it
Beware of the hand when it's comin' from the left
I ain't trippin, just watch your step
Can't truss it

And I'll judge everyone, one by the one
Look here comes the judge, watch it here he come now
(Don't sentence me judge, I ain't did nothin' to nobody)
I can only guess what's happenin'
Years ago he woulda been the ship's captain
Gettin' me bruised on a cruise, what I got to lose
Lost all contact, got me layin' on my back
Ugh, rollin' in my own leftover
When I roll over, I roll over in somebody else
90 damn days on a slave ship
Count them fallin' off 1, 2, 3, 4 hundred at a time
Blood in the wood and it's mine
I'm chokin' on, spit, feelin' pain
Like my brain bein' chained
Still gotta give it what I got
But it's hot in the day, it's cold in the night
But I thrive to survive, I pray to god to stay alive
Attitude boils up inside
And that ain't it, you think I ever quit
Still I plan to get my hands around the neck of the man with the whip
3 months passed, they brand a label on my ass
To signify our owned, I'm on the microphone
Sayin' 1555, how I'm livin'
We been livin' here, livin' ain't the word, I been givin'
Haven't got, classify us in the have-nots
Fightin' haves cause it's all about money "damn"
When it comes to Armageddon mean I'm getting mine
Here I am turn it over Sam
427 to the year, do you understand
That's why it's hard for the black to love the land

Blacks in America have known the score for a long time. Even as they were winning major victories with Brown v Board of Education and the Civil Rights Act, major Civil Rights leaders were emphasizing that racism will never end unless the structural issues of the ghettos, the (still) legal segregation in the cities, the educational gap, the income gap, and the lack of political representation and cohesiveness were addressed. The music of the 70s, 80s, and 90s are littered with songs describing the vicious cycle that was the condition of being a minority in the US. Racism in the US is structural. It's been structural this whole time and Black America has known it from the start. It's White America that's held this fanciful notion that racism is the result of individual bad actors perpetrating violence and enacting racist laws.

 

[Gori the Grey]

You'll notice that none of your many quotations uses the term "structural racism." You'll say they describe the phenomenon we now label with that term, and no doubt you'd be right. No doubt the people who were victims of it were aware of its operation, even before it was labeled with that term (1996, evidently). But terminology enabling widespread understanding of the phenomenon is part of what was involved in the sea change I'm describing. What you'd want to show is some enlightened white people of the earlier 90s who objected to the crime bills based on what we now call structural racism. Then we could fault Biden, etc, for not being equally enlightened. You're a young guy. You've grown up with the idea of structural racism as a given. I'm an old guy. I'm testifying that it was not always so.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

@Owen Glyndwr, what you're not seeing is that even in your quotes the concept of 'structural racism' was subsumed into just plain racism. Looking back from here we can see 'hey, those are structural problems.' At the time I'd bet that even the people doing the talking would have been hard pressed to differentiate the structural problem from the reality that at the time it was still fairly commonplace for an individual person to be casually, openly, bluntly racist. I could look around and say 'those people are just plain wrong,' and I did...more than most people did anyway. But there was too much smoke still pouring off individuals who were refusing to acknowledge the civil rights acts as the law of the land to recognize a smouldering fire underlying the law of the land.

"I'm not hiring you, and sure it's because you're a .... Go ahead and try to prove it." Even with the systemic racism of today, imagine someone trying to get away with saying that straight out. Now, get that when I was entering the civilian work force, long about late eighties, I know there were employers saying it because I had employers who would say it right in front of me assuming that as a 'fellow white' and a good employee I'd never back up the claim. This is the era where Donald Trump could promulgate as a company policy 'put this mark on any application from a potential black tenant so we know to turn them down' and expect that none of the vast number of people who would have to be involved in this kind of circumventing of the law would ever think to do anything about it.

I'm not trying to run down the importance of the fight that is here to be fought, but you really do need to understand that the fight back then was on much different terms. And the songs of the times were about the fight of the times. It's easy to bring those songs into the context of these times; this fight, but that doesn't mean the fight is the same one.

 

[metalhead]

So in the primary last presidential election's primary campaign it was noted in passing what stark contrast there is how Sanders and his primary opponent spent the '60s, particularly with regards to civil rights. I believe photos of Senator Sanders being arrested by the Chicago PD in the wake of civil rights protestest regarding segregated housing at the University of Chicago featured.

He went to a protest. And, it should be noted, was able to go, without fear of being maimed or killed by police or thrown in jail to rot, because of his white skin.

Hillary Clinton worked as a tester for schools in the South to identify ones which were still illegally segregating by race in the early 1970s. She also worked going door-to-door to locate disabled kids who were being denied access to public education on behalf of advocates working to get disabled children equal access to public schools.

Of course, nobody seems to even be aware of her record here, which is more extensive in terms of taking action for others' civil rights than Bernie Sanders. He went to a march and a protest and got arrested, did a couple sit-ins and advocacy at U of Chicago; she also did real, tangible work to advance civil rights causes. But somehow Bernie is this indefatigable civil rights fighter. It's ridiculous.

 

[metatron]

But somehow Bernie is this indefatigable civil rights fighter. It's ridiculous.

That's not the claim.

The claim is that by chance he happened to be not an arrogant entitled manipulative white lady justifying the racist state violence of the 90s...
... or for that matter that he isn't a drafter of VAWA who on a scale for creepyness going from one to ten crits for seventeen.