2020 US Election (Part One)

[hobbsyoyo]

There was no cheating in this election.

Good thing I didn't claim there was then.

But you keep on inventing narratives to score points while ignoring all the real instances of impropriety surrounding this election, including a legal effort to keep one specific precinct open to favor white voters or the fact that NC districts are horribly gerrymandered.

 

[Gorbles]

Just assume that where I don't quote, I agree pretty much entirely

You disagree that Hillary is to blame for Hillary's loss? So much for "the buck stops here." IMO it is her fault that things were close enough in the first place to allow Comey and Wikileaks to tip the scale.

As for the effect of Comey's late-October announcement that the email investigation was back on, I give you Nate Silver:
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-comey-letter-probably-cost-clinton-the-election/

1. Yes. Elections are not simple things. I'm not going to say there weren't things she or her team could've done better either.

2. Please don't make me read Nate Silver I can elaborate more on this elsewhere, but the dude has massive-tier garbage takes so much of the time. That doesn't rule him out in terms of actually turning up with a decent read occasionally, but not right this second for me (not a huge amount of time spare).

Anyway to link things back to the topic of this thread: "Hillary did nothing wrong and the election was stolen from her by wikileaks/Russia/Comey" would be an absolutely disastrous view for Democrats to take away from the 2016 election. For one thing even if it is perfectly accurate it is all pretty much beyond our control. The way we campaign, the candidate we nominate, those things we can control. And to say we cannot do better than we did in 2016 is just garbage.

I just want to stop you on the whole "Hillary did nothing wrong" thing. Because nobody said that. At least, I didn't say that. I'm not the Democratic Party, right? I'm not talking in abstract terms about what the Democratic Party should take away from 2016, I was exploring our views here on CFC about why the hacking of RNC emails is apparently worth some cheap shots. What the DNC should do vs. what I'm arguing are distinctly different things!

It's a problem, I feel, because it contributes to dismissing it as a strategy of interfering in a US election. The fact that the US (and UK) are involved in coups the world over aside for the moment (I do not believe multiple wrongs somehow make a karmic right in this context, I know some leftists that do), we should push back on anything like this because it opens it up to it happening again against people we actually want to win a nomination. It's not a slippery slope, because we're discussing something that has literally already-happened, to a candidate that right-leaning interests ironically probably have the least objection to.

That's my worry. I've already seen what a constant media barrage can do to someone like Corbyn, here in the UK. Imagine adding something like a phone tapping scandal to that as well (which happened, but mainly affected Conservative interests, and therefore has had basically no ramifications or consequences of note).

 

[Lexicus]

2. Please don't make me read Nate Silver I can elaborate more on this elsewhere, but the dude has massive-tier garbage takes so much of the time. That doesn't rule him out in terms of actually turning up with a decent read occasionally, but not right this second for me (not a huge amount of time spare).

*shrugs*

I just want to stop you on the whole "Hillary did nothing wrong" thing. Because nobody said that. At least, I didn't say that. I'm not the Democratic Party, right? I'm not talking in abstract terms about what the Democratic Party should take away from 2016, I was exploring our views here on CFC about why the hacking of RNC emails is apparently worth some cheap shots.

I will forgive you for being somewhat out of the loop on this but "Hillary Clinton did nothing wrong" is certainly the upshot of what many people have claimed after the 2016 election and I believe it is certainly one logical consequence of saying as Nate Silver did that Comey cost Clinton the election.

That is what the "cheap shot" is about, nothing more, nothing less. You aren't a partisan Democratic hack so it wasn't really directed at you.

 

[Gorbles]

Fair is fair. No harm done

 

[El_Machinae]

Good thing I didn't claim there was then.

Technically there was, what we cannot say is that there was actually fraud

 

[Berzerker]

Nicholas Haros Jr., whose mother Frances Haros was killed in the World Trade Center at age 76, wore a black T-shirt with the words "Some people did something" as he read a list of victims' names, including his mother's.

"Today I am here to respond to you exactly who did what to whom. Madam, objectively speaking, we know who and what was done," Haros Jr. said on Wednesday. "There is no uncertainty about that. Why your confusion?"

Haros Jr.'s comments are a reference to a controversial statement made by the Minnesota representative, who said while speaking about the Muslim community's resilience in the face of discrimination that "[Council of American-Islamic Relations] was founded after 9/11 because they recognized that some people did something and that all of us were starting to lose access to our civil liberties."

Is that fair to Omar? The accusation is she minimized the attack and victims but the way I read her words she was minimizing the guilt by association - someone else did something and the rest of us are being blamed.

Seems like a cheap shot to me...

 

[Estebonrober]

Is that fair to Omar? The accusation is she minimized the attack and victims but the way I read her words she was minimizing the guilt by association - someone else did something and the rest of us are being blamed.

Seems like a cheap shot to me...

Easy red meat. You know this story. It's talk radio talking points turning real life into a farcical play.

She worded the point badly, and the optics in America is bad, but her point was accurate. Especially almost 20 years on now.

 

[Zkribbler]

"[Council of American-Islamic Relations] was founded after 9/11 because they recognized that some people did something and that all of us were starting to lose access to our civil liberties."

CAIR was founded in 1994. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_on_American–Islamic_Relations

 

[Estebonrober]

CAIR was founded in 1994. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_on_American–Islamic_Relations

Facts don't matter, just talking points. I heard this great one the other day about how "socialism doesn't work and destroys every country that tries the evidence is in"(he provided no evidence or even anecdotal example) the talking head was saying. Mean while he lives in a mixed economy (which describes every socialist economy he is going on about except maybe cuba), Most of western europe and east asia run some form of socialist policies like education for those that qualify and healthcare for all they are all doing well. American workers are drowning.

 

[Berzerker]

I thought there was something wrong with her timeline, I seem to recall seeing CAIR people before 9/11

 

[Narz]

 

[CKS]

What's your per capita recommendation for number of voters per polling station?

My suburban polling station has 4 or 5 voting machines, so it can probably handle one person per minute. Polling goes until 7, so that is about 2 good hours of voting after work. Hardly anyone can vote during the day, so we are probably talking about 200 or so voters. (Actual number of voters is generally significantly fewer.) Clearly, my county thinks you need 10 polling places for 2500 voters.

 

[Estebonrober]

Can you like write a sentence summing up these videos when you link them like this please? Sarsour sucks, he is right, this is a mistake.

 

[Lexicus]

Since when does Sarsour suck?

 

[Kyriakos]

It seems that most of the Omar hate boils down to anti-islamism without much of a reason. Obviously not all islamic people are to blame for 9/11, and IIRC the US is still best of pals with Saudi terroria.

 

[Estebonrober]

Since when does Sarsour suck?

Not a fan what can I say? I'm not into sharia law, Louis Farrakhan or some of the other nonsense she goes about.

 

[Narz]

It seems that most of the Omar hate boils down to anti-islamism without much of a reason. Obviously not all islamic people are to blame for 9/11, and IIRC the US is still best of pals with Saudi terroria.

Religiosity is a huge turn-off of course (although Islam is somewhat of a sacred cow in some segments of the left, despite being even more anti-women, anti-gay and generally stone-age than Christianity) but the main thing is carousing with bigots & being generally non-inclusive (supposedly the hallmark of progressivism).

Like Pakman said, including such people in one's campaign has zero-upside and a lot of downside.

 

[Narz]

It seems that most of the Omar hate boils down to anti-islamism without much of a reason. Obviously not all islamic people are to blame for 9/11

What kind of weird strawman is that?

Not all criticism of anyone Islamic is Islamiphobic.

 

[Lexicus]

Not a fan what can I say? I'm not into sharia law, Louis Farrakhan or some of the other nonsense she goes about.

Sharia law? really tho? That is literally as racist as anything Trump supporters say. As for Farrakhan, Sanders is Jewish, why do you suppose he doesn't seem concerned?

Religiosity is a huge turn-off of

Islam is[...]even more anti-women, anti-gay and generally stone-age than Christianity

carousing with bigots

Oh my! There is that saying from that one religion about the beam in thine own eye...

 

[Estebonrober]

Sharia law? really tho? That is literally as racist as anything Trump supporters say. As for Farrakhan, Sanders is Jewish, why do you suppose he doesn't seem concerned?







Oh my! There is that saying from that one religion about the beam in thine own eye...

Yes, I'm not into sharia law. No that is not racist. Its me stating I disagree with the tenets of sharia law. In total. Sarsour can run her household as she likes, but she has been a troubling figure for the left. I'm surprised you are supporting her.