Altered Maps X: Ten Time's a Altered Map

[Mathalamus]

im fairly sure china would invade Russia and Mongolia. but im even more dubious about china's capabilities to pretty much fan out like this.

 

[Dachs]

Why invade Mongolia when you already control it anyway?

 

[Winner]

im fairly sure china would invade Russia and Mongolia. but im even more dubious about china's capabilities to pretty much fan out like this.

Russia is China's strategic ally, invading it would be foolhardy. Plus, this map is supposed to be a bit of a parody, as the title suggests.

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Some explanations:

Taiwan - China has hinted it would use force to get it under its control should it declare a formal independence
South China Sea/Vietnam - China claims the whole region and it has a problematic relationship with Vietnam
Central Asia - China might move there to secure its vital interests, seize oil/natural gas fields and supply routes, and drive out the Americans. As a secondary objective it could establish a direct link with Iran and isolate Afghanistan.
India - China claims most of the Indian state Arunachal Pradesh which it calls South Tibet. Relationship between the two Asian powers remains problematic and full of suspicion, and their respective populations harbour deeply antagonistic feelings for each other. Also, China might be dragged into a war against India to prevent Pakistan from collapsing completely.
South Korea/Japan - both US allies could be a target for Chinese retaliation in a full-scale war. Japan is still a hated enemy for many Chinese (and Koreans). Also, as in the above scenario, China might be forced into an offensive in order to prevent its Korean ally from collapsing.

Why invade Mongolia when you already control it anyway?

 

[RedRalph]

and why invade Russia when they will nuke you out of existence?

 

[SouthernKing]

and why invade Russia when they will nuke you out of existence?

There are large oilfields and possibly gold fields in Siberia. It would be worthwhile to try and secure those if we hit peak oil.

 

[say1988]

The problem, again, is that if you are successful you get nuked to hell.

Or you have an ally (or at least not enemy) to supply you with resources while attacking everybody else.

 

[Winner]

There are large oilfields and possibly gold fields in Siberia. It would be worthwhile to try and secure those if we hit peak oil.

Why would you do that if the Russians promised to sell you this oil for $20 a barrel for the next few decades?

The problem, again, is that if you are successful you get nuked to hell.

Not necessarily, but if the Russians panicked, it could end up that way. But this danger is there in case of India too, albeit India has nowhere near the nuclear arsenal of the Russians.

Or you have an ally (or at least not enemy) to supply you with resources while attacking everybody else.

Exactly. The Russians don't join the war, but keep supplying China with the stuff it needs to fight the war.

 

[say1988]

Out of curiosity, what are China's nuclear strike capabilities against European Russia? I seem to recall they have very few ICMBs and pose little threat to the US, but can their shorter range missiles hit, say, Moscow?

 

[Winner]

Out of curiosity, what are China's nuclear strike capabilities against European Russia? I seem to recall they have very few ICMBs and pose little threat to the US, but can their shorter range missiles hit, say, Moscow?

They have plenty now. In fact the first long range missiles were intended to be "Moscow missiles" to deter the USSR from invading. Now they have certainly enough to cause unacceptable damage, if that's how you'd call having most of your major cities destroyed.

The Russians could strike with at least 20 times as much nukes, but would it be worth it?

 

[SouthernKing]

Out of curiosity, what are China's nuclear strike capabilities against European Russia? I seem to recall they have very few ICMBs and pose little threat to the US, but can their shorter range missiles hit, say, Moscow?

They can hit Washington DC, but they have very few of those types of missiles.

Moscow seems a bit much. Maybe their Pacific coast "cities" and perhaps Perm and that region.

 

[say1988]

I guess my knowledge is a bit behind the times. Thanks for the update.

The Russians could strike with at least 20 times as much nukes, but would it be worth it?

I guess that comes down to how much the Russians value what they stand to lose otherwise. If they think the lose of Siberian resources will cripple the country (or more importantly the leadership that can launch a strike), they will take the risk. Especially if they believe that they can launch a successful first strike.

 

[SouthernKing]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_nuclear_weapons

says China has 180 active warheads compared to Russia's 2430 and the US's 1950.

 

[say1988]

Number of warheads doesn't really matter other than Russia has enough to utterly destroy everyone while China has the ability to cripple anyone. More important is the delivery mechanisms.

 

[RedRalph]

What a lot of people fail to realise is that much of the main oil and gas fields in Siberia are way up north. The Chinese would have no chance whatsoever of being able to take them.

 

[Winner]

Number of warheads doesn't really matter other than Russia has enough to utterly destroy everyone while China has the ability to cripple anyone. More important is the delivery mechanisms.

We don't know how many of the new missiles (recently deployed) China has. It could be zero, it could be 20, I have no idea. If I am counting it right, then if we consider only the range and not the actual logistics, then China has between 40-60 missiles capable of hitting important parts of Russia (European Russia and the cities at the Urals).

Not enough for a credible counterforce strike, but more than enough for a devastating countervalue strike.

What a lot of people fail to realise is that much of the main oil and gas fields in Siberia are way up north. The Chinese would have no chance whatsoever of being able to take them.

What people also usually ignore is logistics. Siberia is a nightmare, no sane general would be happy to try and wage a large-scale war there. You have very few roads and just one major railway artery to support your whole offensive, and that's just impossible. Of course people like Clancy think that roads and railways are not needed in a modern war, so they write crap like The Bear and the Dragon.

But the whole point is moot anyway, since China has nothing to gain and everything to lose by invading Russia.

(a map just to stay on-topic)

 

[Traitorfish]

Russia really is an ugly-shaped country, isn't it?

 

[hoplitejoe]

More ugly than Tajikistan?

Edit: or Uzbekistan?

 

[Traitorfish]

I think that the whole ex-Soviet region is pretty much doomed to fugsville, to be honest. Except maybe Ukraine and the Baltic states, they have a certain charm to them.

 

[Kyriakos]

More ugly than Tajikistan?

Edit: or Uzbekistan?

Those look like automatically generated Imperialism II borders

 

[Winner]

Well, the random looking borders are largely a result of all these mountain ranges in central Asia. If there is a valley settled by ethnic group X, it of course must belong to X-stan and not to Y-stan which surrounds it.

Etc.