Alternate History Thread IV: The Sequel

[Azale]

Awesome timeline, I can't wait to work through the final parts. Still expressing interest in the Byzantine Empire for when this goes live.

Do you mean the little rump state that happens to occupy what some might consider the former city of Byzantium or do you mean the monolith that is the Most Sublime Empire of the Ottomans?

If you meant the latter, too late I took it I could change my mind, but I would not bet on it.

 

[Israelite9191]

Yah, sorry Thlayli. The closest two country's, in terms of character, to the Byzantine Empire (besides the afformentioned rump Byzantine Empire) are the Commonwealth of Lithuania-Novgorod (Lucky has expressed interest in that one) and Kingdom of Italy.

EDIT: If you are, in fact, refering to the rump Byzantine Empire, I should probably explain that in OTL it is mroe like an Eastern Orthodox Papal States than anything else. Lots of prestige and religious/cultural/political influence but little power otherwise.

 

[Thlayli]

Yes, ironically enough, by the Byzantine Empire I actually meant the Byzantine Empire.

 

[Azale]

I think Thlayli would be an awesome fit for the Kingdom of Italy, personally. Or maybe even Aragon.

@Israelite, could the Incas & meso-americans be saved or are they doomed to the same fate as in RL?

 

[Israelite9191]

@Thlayli- Great Thlayli. You can have it, as I'm guessing no one else will want it. If you want a guarantee, however, you'll need to do some grunt work.

@Azale - They could definately be saved. The OTL destruction of the native peoples (particularly the Inka) of the Americas was by no means predestined, so I see no reason for it to be here. Additionally, the lack of the Spanish, an incredibly militant/crusade-minded people during this period, as the dominant players in colonial affairs makes the survival of the Amerindian societies more likely, or at least that's what I would surmise. Then again, the French are exactly distasteful of conquest either.

 

[alex994]

I will never get used to seeing such a large Ottoman Empire

Eastern Asia doesn't seem too affected by the timeline either

 

[North King]

@Israelite, could the Incas & meso-americans be saved or are they doomed to the same fate as in RL?

Well, you'll still have to deal with losing 95% of your populace, unless smallpox doesn't exist. So it's not certain that the Americas would lose, but it's not even of hard difficulty, it's of extremely hard bordering on impossible.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Are either the Inka or Aztecs open?

 

[Israelite9191]

Actually, hasn't been affected really at all. The effects of the PoD have only just reached India and Central Asia and haven't spilled over into East Asia. Oh, and Alex, you still have the right to reserve a nation should you choose.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Well, you'll still have to deal with losing 95% of your populace, unless smallpox doesn't exist. So it's not certain that the Americas would lose, but it's not even of hard difficulty, it's of extremely hard bordering on impossible.

Or maybe the Americans will already have smallpox antibodies.

 

[Israelite9191]

Well, you'll still have to deal with losing 95% of your populace, unless smallpox doesn't exist. So it's not certain that the Americas would lose, but it's not even of hard difficulty, it's of extremely hard bordering on impossible.

The population loss would definately be a problem, but preserving political indpendence is more than doable. The Inka nearly did in OTL.

Are either the Inka or Aztecs open?

Both, as are the other Amerindian states. However, I can't guarantee that you will get either of them unless you do some grunt work.

EDIT: I'm not saying I'd let it get anywhere near as unrealistic as BirdNES (i.e. Calusa and Cahokia) but the survival of certain empires, if they have leadership capable of taking advantage of all the right opportunities, could definately survive in a politically indpendent, though definately much reduced in stature, state.

 

[Birdjaguar]

The population loss would definately be a problem, but preserving political indpendence is more than doable. The Inka nearly did in OTL.

Both, as are the other Amerindian states. However, I can't guarantee that you will get either of them unless you do some grunt work.

What grunt work?

 

[Israelite9191]

See my preview thread. I need people willing to do subnational borders in certain countries (now mainly the Timurid empire as Azale has voluntered to do Lithuania-Novgorod), special cities adjustment in India and China, and later on stats (after I've done the rules, of course).

 

[alex994]

I'll do China just because I already did the provincial borders

 

[Birdjaguar]

See my preview thread. I need people willing to do subnational borders in certain countries (now mainly the Timurid empire as Azale has voluntered to do Lithuania-Novgorod), special cities adjustment in India and China, and later on stats (after I've done the rules, of course).

I will think about whether or not I have time.

 

[North King]

The population loss would definately be a problem, but preserving political indpendence is more than doable. The Inka nearly did in OTL.

Depends on your definition of "nearly". I don't find it terribly likely, though I suppose rump states could be preserved in the most inaccessible areas.

 

[Israelite9191]

I'll do China just because I already did the provincial borders

Thanks!

I will think about whether or not I have time.

Please do consider it.

Depends on your definition of "nearly". I don't find it terribly likely, though I suppose rump states could be preserved in the most inaccessible areas.

I can understand your pesimism about the Aztecs, but based on what I have read, I would have to say the ability of the Inka to survive in a reduced size would be very likely. They were much too far away and difficult to reach for any European power to carry out a prolonged war and their territory is perhaps the most difficult in the world to subdue. Combined with a strongly centralised government, the loyalty of their subjects, technology that, given the region and time period, was more than sufficient to combat the Europeans' and the unlikelihood that they would be caught in the middle of a civil war as they were in OTL, I would say that the Inka have more than a fair chance of surviving in some form.

 

[alex994]

Actually I may not take China. I noticed that she has a severe lack of special cities both compared to India and for the time period; I don't wish to play China as I will inevitably add quite a few special cities. So kudos for whoever does.

 

[Israelite9191]

I should point out that the specialty cities definately need to be rebalanced in India and China. Mainly, less in India. I should also point out that China, given its rural nature in this time period, will have fewer special cities (at least to start out with) than some other areas (say, Europe) but will have an equatable, if not outright stronger, economy.

 

[Disenfrancised]

Combined with a strongly centralised government, the loyalty of their subjects, technology that, given the region and time period, was more than sufficient to combat the Europeans' and the unlikelihood that they would be caught in the middle of a civil war as they were in OTL, I would say that the Inka have more than a fair chance of surviving in some form.

There is still the population loss, and since the europeans know that the Incans are sitting on huge piles of silver they will keep on coming over the years till they win - see asia.

Further on the colonial front I find the celtic lovefest of agreeing to share costs for that Atlantic crossing rather dubious for the time period and state of financial development, also the landing as far south as maryland, and such interest even though the explorer wouldn't have been able to bring back gold ala Colombus to get everyone interested.