Alternate History Thread IV: The Sequel

Er, what Eastern Empire? No, the South and the East will be united. The West will collapse, but it would be a very different collapse (into Latin and Latinised successor states, probably economically dependant on the Alexandrine Empire's breadbasket).
 
Given the common Hellenization between the East and South, I'd say yes...but maybe not immediately. You can probably expect a prolonged war between Alexandria and whatever Caesar(s) rise in the West. Also, the Alexandrines should eventually secure a Greco-Roman Mesopotamia at the least, having little to distract them from the Sassanids.
 
To liven up the thread:

Paradox AARs are usually rather, well, ******** and implausible, but this one (with sequel) is actually quite interesting and well-written, though obviously a bit of a stretch as these tend to be. I think its aftermath (see Epilogue Part I of the sequel) might make for a nice modern day althist NES.
 
Urgh, Hearts of Iron. *eyes glaze over*

I do remember my brief stint as an AAR writer, though... I was really an awful writer back then. Not that I've improved much, mind...
 
Paradox AARs are usually rather, well, ******** and implausible, but this one (with sequel) is actually quite interesting and well-written, though obviously a bit of a stretch as these tend to be. I think its aftermath (see Epilogue Part I of the sequel) might make for a nice modern day althist NES.
Your application for Understatement of the Year Award has been confirmed. :p

Having read the first half, it's up there with that one that I posted awhile back in which Hungary managed to totally destroy the Axis and went on to wipe out most of the Allies in terms of plausibility, if not better written. Entertaining, yes, good material... well, maybe compared to some NES backstories...
 
I thought I posted the Hungary one.
 
Could be. It was awhile ago. Whoever posted it though, this makes about as much sense as it did.
 
Naw, China pwning the world is much mroe realistic than hungary.. :p
You clearly didn't read the second half. :p

And yeah, China marching across Siberia with about 50 Infantry Divisions and somehow defeating 50+ Soviet Armored Divisions and 200+ German Armored Divisions is real Paul Verhoeven type quality stuff. :p
 
Chapter 1: Earth’s Funeral Dirge

Chapter 2: Mouth of Sheol


Wars of Heaven
Chapter 3: Flames of Purgatory



YUSUFALI: Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."
PICKTHAL: When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying): I am with you. So make those who believe stand firm. I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger.
SHAKIR: When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

YUSUFALI: This because they contended against Allah and His Messenger: If any contend against Allah and His Messenger, Allah is strict in punishment.
PICKTHAL: That is because they opposed Allah and His messenger. Whoso opposeth Allah and His messenger, (for him) lo! Allah is severe in punishment.
SHAKIR: This is because they acted adversely to Allah and His Messenger; and whoever acts adversely to Allah and His Messenger-- then surely Allah is severe in requiting (evil).

YUSUFALI: Thus (will it be said): "Taste ye then of the (punishment): for those who resist Allah, is the penalty of the Fire."
PICKTHAL: That (is the award), so taste it, and (know) that for disbelievers is the torment of the Fire.
SHAKIR: This-- taste it, and (know) that for the unbelievers is the chastisement of fire.

YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! when ye meet the Unbelievers in hostile array, never turn your backs to them.
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them.
SHAKIR: O you who believe! when you meet those who disbelieve marching for war, then turn not your backs to them.

YUSUFALI: If any do turn his back to them on such a day - unless it be in a stratagem of war, or to retreat to a troop (of his own)- he draws on himself the wrath of Allah, and his abode is Hell,- an evil refuge (indeed)!
PICKTHAL: Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless manoeuvring for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end.
SHAKIR: And whoever shall turn his back to them on that day-- unless he turn aside for the sake of fighting or withdraws to a company-- then he, indeed, becomes deserving of Allah's wrath, and his abode is hell; and an evil destination shall it be.

YUSUFALI: It is not ye who slew them; it was Allah: when thou threwest (a handful of dust), it was not thy act, but Allah's: in order that He might test the Believers by a gracious trial from Himself: for Allah is He Who heareth and knoweth (all things).
PICKTHAL: Ye (Muslims) slew them not, but Allah slew them. And thou (Muhammad) threwest not when thou didst throw, but Allah threw, that He might test the believers by a fair test from Him. Lo! Allah is Hearer, Knower.
SHAKIR: So you did not slay them, but it was Allah Who slew them, and you did not smite when you smote (the enemy), but it was Allah Who smote, and that He might confer upon the believers a good gift from Himself; surely Allah is Hearing, Knowing.

YUSUFALI: That, and also because Allah is He Who makes feeble the plans and stratagem of the Unbelievers.
PICKTHAL: That (is the case); and (know) that Allah (it is) Who maketh weak the plan of disbelievers.
SHAKIR: This, and that Allah is the weakener of the struggle of the unbelievers.

YUSUFALI: (O Unbelievers!) if ye prayed for victory and judgment, now hath the judgment come to you: if ye desist (from wrong), it will be best for you: if ye return (to the attack), so shall We. Not the least good will your forces be to you even if they were multiplied: for verily Allah is with those who believe!
PICKTHAL: (O Qureysh!) If ye sought a judgment, now hath the judgment come unto you. And if ye cease (from persecuting the believers) it will be better for you, but if ye return (to the attack) We also shall return. And your host will avail you naught, however numerous it be, and (know) that Allah is with the believers (in His Guidance).
SHAKIR: If you demanded a judgment, the judgment has then indeed come to you; and if you desist, it will be better for you; and if you turn back (to fight), We (too) shall turn back, and your forces shall avail you nothing, though they may be many, and (know) that Allah is with the believers.

-Qur’an 8:12-19[1]



Usually, Time seems to operate like winds across the sands of a desert. Things move slowly, change, when it occurs, happens over decades, or even centuries. Other times, however, Time seems to act as a wave crashing into the seashore, wiping away the puny Empires that men create like they were nothing more than sandcastles built by children to close to the edge of a raging ocean. Currently, Time seemed to be the later, rushing forth with youthful energy. Within a few short years, the land of the once mighty Roman Empire lay carpeted with the bodies of her fallen sons. Ambitious men rose to claim the coveted purple, only to be cast down from such heights, unwillingly mimicking Hephaestus’ mighty fall. With the defeat of Ennodius only one man, Richomeres, remained from those who originally claimed the title of Augustus after the dual deaths of Valen and Gratian. Two others, Victor and Arbogastes, also claimed the title of Augustus, Victor over Hispania, Gaul, and Britannia, while Arbogastes claimed Italy and North Africa.

With the wresting of Italy and North Africa, Arbogastes seemed to have solidified the power of Richomeres, as Arbogastes himself was the official heir to Richomeres. However, the West did not surrender so easily to their new Augustus. Arbogastes was, like his uncle and most of his army, a firm supporter of the homoiousion party while his new subjects were for the most part of the homoousion party thanks to the policies of Ennodius and the tireless efforts of theologians such as Ambrose of Milan.

In an effort to consolidate his position, Arbogastes embarked upon a policy of replacing the homoousion clergy with his own homoiousion clergy. This, however, had a disastrous effect, as riots broke out across the West. Arbogastes reacted severely to these riots, sending in his army into several cities, establishing his will through iron and blood. Predictably enough, this only further inflamed the tensions between Arbogastes and his subjects as Arbogastes was increasingly seen as a foreign king ruling through the might of uncultured barbarians. Meanwhile, Victor invaded Italy, the weak-willed Augustus being swayed to this course by the golden-tongued Ambrose, who had sought sanctuary with him at the start of the persecutions.

This military expedition, however, proved disastrous for Victor. Though the countryside welcomed him with open arms, his popular support could not outweigh his military incompetence, and Arbogastes’ veteran, though sometimes undependable, army easily routed him in two battles, the second of which left Victor dead on the field. Arbogastes immediately moved to expand his position through an invasion of Gaul. There, his attack met various factions which were all striving with each other in the power vacuum left by Victor’s death. By exploiting this disunity, Arbogastes managed to conquer all of Gaul, Hispania, and Britannia in only two years, despite facing a hostile countryside.

It was about this time that Richomeres himself died of old age accelerated by the stress caused by constant campaigns, or perhaps poison, or perhaps divine judgment, or of a dozen other causes depending on who one listened to. Arbogastes, as Richomeres’ official heir, went east to claim that Empire as well, and in 390 CE, reunited the Empire once again. This newly united Empire, however, was but a shadow of its former self. In the West, any ambitious general found a seemingly unending supply of local levies willing to fight against the hated Augustus. Meanwhile, Egypt, the former pride of the Empire, became destitute, plagued by riots which seemed to be started merely at the mention of the name “Jesus.” Added to that was the barbarian problem as both Arbogastes and his rivals invited them over in droves in order to supplement their own armies. Some of these mercenaries, however, had other ideas, and the border territories soon became filled with roving bands in search of loot.

As a result of these problems, Arbogastes spent almost the entirety of the next three years of his reign campaigning against various enemies. It is unclear how long he would have campaigned before peace would come, for during the fall of the third year of his reign over a united Empire, he was assassinated. Though the assassin was killed by his loyal Frankish bodyguard, the damage was already done. That day, two things died, the man called Arbogastes and the dream of a united Roman Empire.

It would be pointless to recount the minor generals and chieftains, the petty wars, the tales of treachery and deceit. Instead, it would be more helpful to examine the larger picture, the trends and large scale movements, the forest all of the small trees combined created.

In the West, after the death of Arbogastes, the homoousion party regained power, using its popular support to drive out the homoiousions. However, almost immediately, the homoousion party again found itself threatened. The rebellions against Arbogastes, as well as the scramble for power following his death, left the West in an extraordinarily weakened state. This made the West an attractive target for migrating Germanic tribes, most of whom were homoiousion. As these raiders stepped into the power vacuum, they settled down, gaining their own small kingdoms through conquest. Unlike Arbogastes and Richomeres, however, these barbarian kingdoms did not persecute the homoousion party, instead utilizing the local clergy to reinforce their rule. As such, local bishops, and especially the Bishop of Rome, gained in local prestige and power as they were often used to negotiate between various kingdoms. Eventually, the ruling class even converted, switching to the religion of their subjects.

In the East, things were hardly better. The wealth that the East had previously boasted had been sapped by the near constant warfare. In addition, one of its richest provinces, Egypt, lay in ruins, its economy in a shambles due to the damage caused by the frequent religious inspired riots. As a result, the East did not have the money to bribe away raiders as it once did. After Arbogastes’ death, his favored Franks established a kingdom in Asia, while the Goths, Alans, and other tribes fought over Europe. Even the Sassanids gained some land at the Roman’s expense, though these gains proved short lived as the Sassanids fell back into the indolence which had gripped them, losing the provinces to rebellion and barbarian advances. Like the West, the only thing holding the East together was a shared religion, as more and more of both the subjects and rulers looked to their head in Constantinople for advice and spiritual leadership.

Briefly it appeared as if the East would be united once again. However, instead of being united under a Roman, or at least, a barbarian claiming to be Roman, this union was almost accomplished by an outside invasion by one of the most feared barbarian tribe, the Huns. It was the Huns which whose conquests earlier had sparked the migration of tribes which lead to the barbarian influx into the Roman Empire. Now, in 440, almost fifty years after the death of Arbogastes, under their leader Bleda, they expanded their empire into formerly Roman lands.

They came from the east, ironically enough, Bleda having previously wrested control of Armenia from the Sassanids. From this conquest, Bleda turned west, passing through several minor states before being stopped from going further west by a Frankish force. Though the outcome of the battle was a draw, Bleda decided to go south instead of further west, passing through the Levant, securing the surrender of the cities there through intimidation, appearing outside of weakened Egypt. In Egypt, Bleda stumbled right in the midst of the eternally recurring religious wars that wracked the territory. Each side appealed to the new conqueror to be their champion and drive the other out of Egypt and into Hell where they belonged. Bleda, uncaring of the theological subtleties each side employed and angered by what he perceived as both sides attempting to use him indiscriminately waged war against both, raising pyramids of skulls to rival the Great Pyramids. While the pacification of the province was proceeding in this manner, Bleda was planning his next conquest, avenging the humiliation by the Franks. However Bleda, though rumored to be invincible on the battlefield Bleda proved anything but off the battlefield, dying suddenly and in suspicious circumstances in Alexandria in 445.

After his death, his empire dissolved into civil war and opportunistic land grabs by surrounding powers. One of his heirs, however, Utigur, managed to take advantage of weak neighbors to carve out a lasting empire in Palestine. One nation in particular managed to profit from the Hunnic collapse, the Franks. Originally owning only a small rump state in Anatolia, the Franks, in a series of campaigns, managed to expand, over several decades, to encompass not only most of Asia Minor, but also the important city of Constantinople. There, the Pope of Constantinople crowned the king of the Franks the Augustus of the Roman Empire. In response to this, the Pope of Rome crowned the king of the Vandals, a powerful kingdom that controlled most of Italy and southern Gaul, the true Augustus of the Roman Empire. Each “Augustus” however, had other problems to deal with than their official rival, and so their successors kept claiming sole rule over the Roman Empire though none ever tried to enforce that claim.

Thus, many years passed, years filled with the rise and fall of kingdoms and peoples, years filled with wars and rumors of wars. And, of course, years filled with religious strife and consolidation. In the west, the homoousion party, led by the Pope of Rome, gained unquestioned supremacy while the east, led by the Pope of Constantinople, gained its own unquestioned supremacy. Meanwhile, each competed over the traditional contested areas, Egypt primarily, but also the previously unevangelized areas of Germany and beyond.

Then one day, almost 250 years after that fateful battle, a new actor appeared on the stage of history. He was, to be sure, a queer actor. Unlike the great actors who had gone before him, he was not a barbarian, nor a Roman, nor any of the other designations of peoples which had shaped the world these descendants of Rome lived in. He was, instead, a previously anonymous man, in a little, out of the way town, far from the halls of the powerful. And so he would have remained, unknown by all except his family and close friends, had he not had an event of momentous import. For, he claimed, neither the Pope in Rome nor the Pope in Constantinople truly spoke the words of God. Neither, for that matter did the despised mother of them both, the Jews, hold to the pure truth. No, since that great Prophet Jesus, the truth had been lost. And now, this man had recovered the truth, gained through a series of conversations with an angel. And now the time has come when all must submit themselves to the Truth.


[1] Accessed from http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/008.qmt.html
 
Ah, good new chapter, though a bit spoiled by a few annoying typoes. The ethnic makeup seems quite different, with the Franks in Anatolia, Vandals in Italy and so forth; also, much of the east is semi-Aryan now, correct? Now that will have some interesting reprecussions further along the line.

Not sure how well will the Palestinian Huns do. It would be fun if they were to convert to Judaism, though. ;)
 
Ah, good new chapter, though a bit spoiled by a few annoying typoes.

Those aren't typos, they're part of a code revealing where the Catholic Church is hiding the Holy Grail.

The ethnic makeup seems quite different, with the Franks in Anatolia, Vandals in Italy and so forth; also, much of the east is semi-Aryan now, correct? Now that will have some interesting reprecussions further along the line.

They are both semi-Aryan as well as semi-Arian.

Not sure how well will the Palestinian Huns do. It would be fun if they were to convert to Judaism, though. ;)

Alas, their kingdom soon will not be of this world.
 
Not gonna read that whole thing anytime soon. Skimming the beginning and middle looks semi-decent but the end is just plain bad. Eg:

Further east, China, which was spared almost all attacks, suffers from drought caused by the shift in weather and the radioactive rain, which contaminates much of the Tarim Basin. Only a handful of nuclear weapons fall on Chinese soil, almost all from rogue Soviet commands (and in one case, an off-course American bomber, which is subsequently shot down). By 1965, as the world recovers from the jolt in global climate, China is poised for a great leap northward, into the vast empty expanses of Siberia. The few radioactive areas are no big deal for a nation with over a billion people to spend on cleanup and settlement.
Except China is still lead by that crazy fool Mao Zedong, still just got done with the disaster of the Five Year Plan and the Great Leap Forward, "drought" is nothing to sneeze at in China, and global fallout goes everywhere--doesn't need rain or local bombs to fall. So, in short, the idea of China becoming a superpower in 1965 or anytime around then is utterly laughable. It doesn't have the leadership or the capability when full of 1,000,000,000 starving people.

Oh, yeah: WHERE THE HELL IS YOUR UPDATE, YOU LAZY BUM? Get back to your updating hole!
 
I am! I surely didn't read the whole thing either :p Someone linked me to it, and I thought it my duty as an NESer to share :mischief:
 
Heh, Symph. I'll quote myself.

[20:41] <LightFang> azale
[20:41] <LightFang> tl;dl
[20:41] <LightFang> post it up in the NESing forum
[20:41] <LightFang> I want to see Symphony tear it to shreds
[20:41] <azale> hi
[20:42] <azale> ok, i will

;D

It looked pretty good, given my weak grasp of history and the like. =]
 
Not gonna read that whole thing anytime soon. Skimming the beginning and middle looks semi-decent but the end is just plain bad. Eg:


Except China is still lead by that crazy fool Mao Zedong, still just got done with the disaster of the Five Year Plan and the Great Leap Forward, "drought" is nothing to sneeze at in China, and global fallout goes everywhere--doesn't need rain or local bombs to fall. So, in short, the idea of China becoming a superpower in 1965 or anytime around then is utterly laughable. It doesn't have the leadership or the capability when full of 1,000,000,000 starving people.

Plus in 1965 it only has 700-750 million people. Plus china is much more vulnerable to a few bombs than russia or the US would be - slam a few nukes into the upper reaches of the yellow river, make some contaminated floods and watch 100m people run in terror. In the event of a non-total destruction war my money is on Brazil.
 
How about Australia or Indoesia? They are well placed as well... and India assming it didn't get hit much or have serious fall out...otherwise it would be in the same situation as China with immense famine.
 
How about Australia or Indoesia? They are well placed as well... and India assming it didn't get hit much or have serious fall out...otherwise it would be in the same situation as China with immense famine.

Not enough people in the former (though they will probably do all right), Indonesia isn't developed enough at the PoD (and there is no more foreign captial floating around), and lacks mechanisms for internal reinvestment.

Re: India - if Norman Borlung survives the chaos, and manages to introduce dwarf wheat successful as the OTL then India will be a superpower...otherwise its screwed. Plus there is the problem with Pakistan (since they are now pretty much free to fight to the death).
 
Plus there is the problem with Pakistan (since they are now pretty much free to fight to the death)

I don't see how thats a problem? India is free to annihilate Pakistan without any superpowers stopping it, and Pakistan can't relay on foreign aid for its military...admittedly India can't either but India at least has larger forces, and has an indigenous arms industry as well with HAL, and other DRDO.
 
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