an abortion thread with no personal attacks

[caketastydelish]

Only if you think that "cracker" is just as offensive as the n-word, and if that was the case you'd basically be a lousy human being and there's not much more we could say about it. Otherwise, his point that our standards for the use of words are based on how people relate to those words- in this case, that white people relate to words like "cracker" and "honky" in a fundamentally different way than black people relate to the n-word- is entirely relevant.

I mean, I don't know about you, but I am really not offended if a black person calls me "cracker". In contrast, growing up Irish Catholic where I did, I can say from experience that I am offended if a Protestant calls me, say, "fenian". The words are not equivalent simply because they fall under the broad heading of "ethnic slur".

I live in America, a country that probably has much more racial tensions between white and black than Scotland does. At the very least, America's percentage of black people is much higher than Scotland's. But that in itself is not relevant to my point:

Just because YOU are not offended by the terms "cracker" or such, doesn't mean EVERYONE is not offended by those terms. If you took a poll of white people and asked them how they felt if a black person called them "cracker" the majority would probably say they would find it to be offensive. Unless you can find me a source that says otherwise, I'm going to presume it's true, simply based on the fact that most white people I know don't like being called "cracker".

Are you trying to say there are absolutely no derogatory terms that exist in the english language to degrade people of European descent? I can assure you there are.

I'm still amused. For those of us who self-identify as liberals, how does it feel to be trying on what is effectively the abstinence-based personal responsibility and repercussions argument? Does it being gender specific help?

Once again, double standards suck. Glad to see you agree.

 

[civ_king]

Only if you think that "cracker" is just as offensive as the n-word, and if that was the case you'd basically be a lousy human being and there's not much more we could say about it. Otherwise, his point that our standards for the use of words are based on how people relate to those words- in this case, that white people relate to words like "cracker" and "honky" in a fundamentally different way than black people relate to the n-word- is entirely relevant.

I mean, I don't know about you, but I am really not offended if a black person calls me "cracker". In contrast, growing up Irish Catholic where I did, I can say from experience that I am offended if a Protestant calls me, say, "fenian". The words are not equivalent simply because they fall under the broad heading of "ethnic slur".

When was the last time you had a good race riot in the UK or Ireland? We have them every couple years and sometimes two in a year.

I'm not saying that specifically targeting men would be okay.

But the fact remains that the consequences women have to suffer immensely outweigh those of the men. It's a fact that shouldn't simply be glossed over while making swift equivalences.

Well then we should empower women to say the word "no" more often.

What about saying that CS is only mandatory for spouses? The act of getting married means that both agree to be legally bound for any children that might come along, but any pregnancies that occur out of marriage carries no CS whatsoever?

Understand I'm not advocating a position Valka, just thinking out loud here. With unmarried couples, the man would have no obligation. The woman is the one who is pregnant so she has sole control over the baby (as has been the case for most of history). If she wants to keep it, give for adoption, abort, or something else, she has sole say. By clarifying that the unmarried father has no financial obligation due to no legal bond, then it may help abortion arguments where the woman wants to and the father doesn't because we've already established that the father has no legal bond.

With married couples though they both have a say.

Would that apply to common law marriages where there wasn't a license signed, but they've been filing jointly?

 

[Traitorfish]

I live in America, a country that probably has much more racial tensions between white and black than Scotland does. At the very least, America's percentage of black people is much higher than Scotland's. But that in itself is not relevant to my point:

Just because YOU are not offended by the terms "cracker" or such, doesn't mean EVERYONE is not offended by those terms. If you took a poll of white people and asked them how they felt if a black person called them "cracker" the majority would probably say they would find it to be offensive. Unless you can find me a source that says otherwise, I'm going to presume it's true, simply based on the fact that most white people I know don't like being called "cracker".

Well, as white Americans are so fond of telling us, some people just look for things to be offended about.

Are you trying to say there are absolutely no derogatory terms that exist in the english language to degrade people of European descent? I can assure you there are.

There are plenty: mick, wop, polack, spic, dago, kike; I could go on. What there isn't is meaningfully derogatory terms for all people of European decent, for white people-in-general, and if you think there is then you frankly need to grow a pair.

When was the last time you had a good race riot in the UK or Ireland? We have them every couple years and sometimes two in a year.

No idea what you're getting at, here.

 

[ParkCungHee]

When was the last time you had a good race riot in the UK or Ireland? We have them every couple years and sometimes two in a year.

They have a whole season set aside for it.

 

[sophie]

I live in America, a country that probably has much more racial tensions between white and black than Scotland does. At the very least, America's percentage of black people is much higher than Scotland's. But that in itself is not relevant to my point:

Just because YOU are not offended by the terms "cracker" or such, doesn't mean EVERYONE is not offended by those terms. If you took a poll of white people and asked them how they felt if a black person called them "cracker" the majority would probably say they would find it to be offensive. Unless you can find me a source that says otherwise, I'm going to presume it's true, simply based on the fact that most white people I know don't like being called "cracker".

Are you trying to say there are absolutely no derogatory terms that exist in the english language to degrade people of European descent? I can assure you there are.

Two things

1.) The fact you find Britain's relative lack of black-white race issues to translate to Britain being ethnically homogeneous and not having any kind of ethnic or prejudicial issues (and thereby not being able to relate to America in that way) is not only laughable, but also sickening and insulting. You really should check yosef 'fore you wreck yosef.

2.) I really like the way you're going about making your argument. The whole "I'm discounting all of your anecdotes while stating that my position is the objectively true one on the basis of all of my anecdotes" works just stupendously. Keep it up, it's clearly the tack one should take to win people over to one's viewpoints.

 

[civ_king]

Well, as white Americans are so fond of telling us, some people just look for things to be offended about.


There are plenty: mick, wop, polack, spic, dago, kike; I could go on. What there isn't is meaningfully derogatory terms for all people of European decent, for white people-in-general, and if you think there is then you frankly need to grow a pair.


No idea what you're getting at, here.

Well Americans are uncreative, mick is rarely if ever used and spic is used to refer to Hispanics, most people just use cracker and honky, probably because they are too lazy to figure out the right one.

We actually have race riots that cause tens of millions in property damage or more, the '92 LA race riots was a billion dollars of damage and over ten thousand military personnel were deployed to enforce order and it even featured racial militias, USA #1!

They have a whole season set aside for it.

Really now? Do tell!

 

[Traitorfish]

Well Americans are uncreative, mick is rarely if ever used and spic is used to refer to Hispanics, most people just use cracker and honky, probably because they are too lazy to figure out the right one.

And? Calling somebody "poo-face" is not as bad as calling them a [oh, whoops, it's blocked, call it the "f-word", I suppose] because they might be gay.

We actually have race riots that cause tens of millions in property damage or more, the '92 LA race riots was a billion dollars of damage and over ten thousand military personnel were deployed to enforce order and it even featured racial militias, USA #1!

Again, I'm not following. The fact that you had a race riot twenty years ago somehow makes the word "cracker" offensive?

 

[Dachs]

I like how the people claiming that "cracker" is offensive are a) an Iranian and b) an Indian. Apparently the honkies themselves don't give a rat's ass?

 

[civ_king]

And? Calling somebody "poo-face" is not as bad as calling them a [oh, whoops, it's blocked, call it the "f-word", I suppose] because they might be gay.


Again, I'm not following. The fact that you had a race riot twenty years ago somehow makes the word "cracker" offensive?

In the US cracker and honky are very much racial pejoratives. We also have some serious racial tensions, I was actually surprised there were no race riots over the Trayvon Martin case, perhaps Americans are learning.

 

[Traitorfish]

In the US cracker and honky are very much racial pejoratives.

I already explicitly described them as "ethnic slurs", so I don't really know what you think this introduces to the discussion.

We also have some serious racial tensions, I was actually surprised there were no race riots over the Trayvon Martin case, perhaps Americans are learning.

Again, so what?

 

[sophie]

In the US cracker and honky are very much racial pejoratives. We also have some serious racial tensions, I was actually surprised there were no race riots over the Trayvon Martin case, perhaps Americans are learning.

lol, people actually use these terms (and find them offensive)? I thought they only existed in blacksploitation films and Chappelle Show skits!

 

[IdiotsOpposite]

I like how the people claiming that "cracker" is offensive are a) an Iranian and b) an Indian. Apparently the honkies themselves don't give a rat's ass?

I dunno about the other crackers, but I really couldn't care less what you call me, so long as it's true.

 

[Farm Boy]

Well, being called white in the US, atm, is like "So what? I'm white? That's supposed to be bad?"

I prefer the good ol' hick, redneck, and trailer-trash standbys. At least I can tell somebody is trying to be offensive there.

 

[IdiotsOpposite]

Well, being called white in the US, atm, is like "So what? I'm white? That's supposed to be bad?"

I prefer the good ol' hick, redneck, and trailer-trash standbys. At least I can tell somebody is trying to be offensive there.

I've got a great Hellyeah song that I play whenever someone calls me a redneck. (Little known fact, North Idaho, where half my family's from and where I live about 6 miles from, is very... hick-ish, for lack of a better term.)

 

[Formaldehyde]

It is really a shame that so many now perceive redneck to mean hick, or good ole boy if you prefer. To paraphrase Jeff Foxworthy, you might be a redneck if you try to resolve your differences with your fists and you think you are superior to blacks. It really has nothing to do with how many hunting dogs you have or how many toilets are in your front yard. At least that is how Southerners have traditionally used the term.

My father's side of the family is from just outside of Scottsboro, Ala. When my parents first married, every time my mother went to Scottsboro to go shopping when they were there on vacation, a street preacher would launch into her for being a Nothern hussy.

 

[Farm Boy]

And here I was thinking redneck involved looking down to tend crops during the summer.

 

[Traitorfish]

I really do we wonder how precise we need to be with our slurs.

 

[Formaldehyde]

And here I was thinking redneck involved looking down to tend crops during the summer.

That is where the term first originated. But it wasn't long before it was turned into a descriptive word for racists, at least by many Southerners. But many people do look down on anybody who is a farmer.

The term "cracker" came from "corn-cracker", but that is hardly how it is commonly used. The term is now even used by some white Georgians and Floridians to indicate they have been there for many generations.

How long you have been living here is a major issue with some. Bumper stickers that said "Native", "Resident", "Semi-Resident", and "Tourist" were quite common in Florida for a decade or so, much like "Baby on Board" signs were so popular for a while.

 

[Farm Boy]

I guess I thought it was a class based pejorative, didn't realize it had a connotation of calling somebody a racist.

Btw, sorry for not addressing your last reply to me Formy, haven't had a ton of time. I'll get to it.

 

[sophie]

I really do we wonder how precise we need to be with our slurs.

No true redneck.