Anti-fascists not welcome in Estonia

[Gelion]

Anti-fascists not welcome in Estonia
Published 31 July, 2010, 10:53
Edited 31 July, 2010, 20:13

Estonian authorities have banned anti-fascist activists from entering the country. The activists were going to rally against the meeting of Estonian veterans who fought on the side of Nazi Germany.

The bus with Lithuanian and Latvian anti-fascists was unable to cross the border between Estonia and Latvia, as the border guards said the bus was in poor technical condition.

Six activists were made to go back to Latvia. 16 others were admitted, however, they were made to board an Estonian bus specially sent in, reports news agency Interfax.

The forum of the Waffen SS division has taken place in the north-east of the country, in a village called Sinimäe.

Back in 1944, this neighborhood was the scene of fierce fighting between Soviet soldiers and SS forces. According to estimates, the death toll from both sides reached 200 000 people.

A day earlier, Estonia refused to allow Finnish activists to enter the country. The head of Finland’s anti-fascism committee, Johan Beckman, said the ban is a sign that Estonia supports pro-fascism events and is becoming the most dangerous place in the modern world.

On Monday, the Russian Foreign Ministry expressed indignation at Estonian authorities’ encouraging events that celebrate the crimes of SS squads.

Source: http://rt.com/Top_News/2010-07-31/estonia-ss-fascism-protest.html Make sure to watch the video.

Fashists are welcome in modern day Estonia. Anti-fashists are not. Discuss

 

[Tee Kay]

A day earlier, Estonia refused to allow Finnish activists to enter the country. The head of Finland’s anti-fascism committee, Johan Beckman, said the ban is a sign that Estonia supports pro-fascism events and is becoming the most dangerous place in the modern world.

More dangerous than Somalia? Palestine? Iraq? Afghanistan?

 

[Ayn Rand]

Let them respect their soldiers who fought and died in war. These are not the same SS that manned the concentration camps, they are the waffen-SS who were a combat formation, and into which many foreigners were conscipted without having a choice anyway.

 

[Maaximillus]

Bad economic situation + high amount of "foreigners" = good momentum for increasing extremism.

"foreigners" mean those Russians that stayed in Estonia after fall of Soviet Union. Roughly 20% of Estonia's population is made of them. They speak quite bad Estonian and are more often school dropouts and have more problems. Most Estonians consider them to be Russians and some discriminate against them. That at least is my analysis of the situation.

Also Johan Bä(e)ckman is generally considered just silly pro-Russian "puppet".

Finland's anti-fascism "committee" is merely an unofficial organization with only few members. Here is their webpage: http://antifasistit.blogspot.com/

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

Let them respect their soldiers who fought and died in war.

I think for once I agree with you. I dont think they are meeting to glorify fascism. But the opinion might change if there is more information.

 

[Dachs]

Give it back to the Swordbrothers.

 

[luiz]

The head of Finland’s anti-fascism committee, Johan Beckman, said the ban is a sign that Estonia supports pro-fascism events and is becoming the most dangerous place in the modern world.

Sounds like an idiot.

 

[Gelion]

More dangerous than Somalia? Palestine? Iraq? Afghanistan?

Dangerous because the ideology that said it is okay to make soap out of Jews is glorified in Estonia. Same way that beheading is considered "normal" in some of the places you mentioned.

Let them respect their soldiers who fought and died in war. These are not the same SS that manned the concentration camps, they are the waffen-SS who were a combat formation, and into which many foreigners were conscipted without having a choice anyway.

Those who wanted choice usually ran away and joined partisans. There were partisans who fought both Soviets and Nazis - no problem there. And from my understanding much of the killing was done with the help of local collaborators. I am not sure if Estonian SS units were used to guard the camps and escort the prisoners, but they were protecting the regime that willingly gave 1000's of Jews away to be executed.

 

[Ayn Rand]

they were protecting the regime that willingly gave 1000's of Jews away to be executed.

Of course they were, but did they know about that? Young soldiers who just wanted to defend their country can't be blamed for the actions of their leaders. Surely there's a big difference between them and the real Nazis? Let the old boys remember their comrades, it's all over now anyway.

 

[Gelion]

Of course they were, but did they know about that? Young soldiers who just wanted to defend their country can't be blamed for the actions of their leaders. Surely there's a big difference between them and the real Nazis? Let the old boys remember their comrades, it's all over now anyway.

I think Jewish arrests and Nazi ideology of the time were not very hard to hide. I also doubt that all of the soldiers were young, naive and came from remoute villages.
Still, the history of those times is known now and if they feel it is worth glorifying, they should do it.

 

[Winner]

And this is where we all say "Wow, Estonia is such a terrible, terrible rogue state! By the Gods, we must allow Russia to re-occupy it in order to cleanse it from fascism!"

And then Gelion wakes up.

 

[Maaximillus]

If Estonia would have been under Nazi control for 51 years they would celebrate brave Estonians who joined the Soviet partisans to fight against the Nazi invaders.

 

[Gelion]

And this is where we all say "Wow, Estonia is such a terrible, terrible rogue state! By the Gods, we must allow Russia to re-occupy it in order to cleanse it from fascism!"

And then Gelion wakes up.

Not really, no.

Thank you for your visit. [1:20]

 

[Ayn Rand]

Still, the history of those times is known now and if they feel it is worth glorifying, they should do it.

We have war memorials and remembrance parades in Britain - I would hardly say they glorify war. It is a group of sad men remembering their dead comrades.

 

[Desert-Fox]

I think some people here don't understand the situation clearly. For russians they have "glorius" thing that they won a war against facsism. But now they have no real understand what facsism means and they feel more than fascism is everything against them. They also have no real understand what democracy means. These "anti-facsists" are Kremlin puppets whos objetive is to discredit Baltics.

About the "SS" meeting... they remember the victims who fought against soviets in 1944. Here wasn't possible to fight under estonian flag but in minds they wanted to liberate Estonia. Johan Backman is just a jerk and nobody who's IQ is more than 70 doesn't take him seriously. Some of the "Anti-Facsists" are the same persons who organized the Bronze Night.

 

[Ajidica]

We have war memorials and remembrance parades in Britain

You have Nazi memorials and parades in Britain? I forgot, its called that one party.

 

[Imrahil91]

"Anti-fascists" often just run around breaking windows and throwing molotov cocktails around anyway, so no one wants them in their country.

 

[Ayn Rand]

You have Nazi memorials and parades in Britain? I forgot, its called that one party.

[sarcasm]The majority of Nazi voters were women. No German women fought in the war. Therefore, the majority of Nazis were peaceful.

What do you have against the peaceful majority?[/sarcasm]

 

[Gelion]

I think some people here don't understand the situation clearly. For russians they have "glorius" thing that they won a war against facsism.

I'd say you are close to the truth. For Russians and most other people of former USSR, that victory was a victory against a regime that dehumanisted our people and wanted to wipe them off the face of the Earth. We like the fact that we won.

But now they have no real understand what facsism means and they feel more than fascism is everything against them.

Maybe some do, not me.

They also have no real understand what democracy means. These "anti-facsists" are Kremlin puppets whos objetive is to discredit Baltics.

I wound not say that. There are some policies that people consider offensive towards them, such as for example glorifying your former enemies and their actions. It is normal that you should fight against that. Its not about "discrediting something" it is about "voicing your opinion."

About the "SS" meeting... they remember the victims who fought against soviets in 1944.

Thats fine, not problem. Tell me this: when does a meeting to remember Nazi victims take place? Is there a national holiday to commemorate thousands of Jews killed by Estonian collaborators?

Here wasn't possible to fight under estonian flag but in minds they wanted to liberate Estonia. Johan Backman is just a jerk and nobody who's IQ is more than 70 doesn't take him seriously. Some of the "Anti-Facsists" are the same persons who organized the Bronze Night.

Nice. What does Estonian police do to stop neo-nazis to come to these "celebrations" and buying Nazi symbols and litterature? Democratic European countires, like Germany for example, have laws against this sort of thing.

Spoiler John Backman :

P.S. I don't care about Johan Backman. Don't even know who he is.

 

[red_elk]

Let them respect their soldiers who fought and died in war. These are not the same SS that manned the concentration camps, they are the waffen-SS who were a combat formation, and into which many foreigners were conscipted without having a choice anyway.

We have no problem with anybody respecting their fallen soldiers, including Germans:

(This is a cemetery of German soldiers in Russia)

A man stands near a memorial wall for German soldiers that were killed during WWII, about 450km north of Moscow in Korpovo on May 4, 2009.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jm8DDtw5-W0

The problem with such "celebrations" is with people who voluntarily fought on Nazi side and now assuming they did rightful things.