[RD] Ask a Theologian V

We weren't talking about "rationality", though. We were talking about omniscience, and that's not the same thing. Omniscience is just about knowledge; rationality is about planning. A being could be perfectly omniscient but not very rational. If you're attributing to God perfect rationality then you're already smuggling in the notion that he does only what is right, because that is part of practical reason.

I see, but then why isn't God also considered "omnirational" in theology? That seems like a pretty important quality for the ultimate cause of everything.

I don't know why you say that moral dispositions are "mundane and arbitrary". Surely the whole point of the belief that God is perfectly moral is that they are not mundane and arbitrary, but that morality is important and objective.

How does that follow? I'm talking about moral dispositions as inclinations to act a certain way; for instance, sex drive, jealousy, empathy, etc. There are no features that could override perfect rationality, so I can't see how he would be disposed to do anything other than what is moral.
 
I see, but then why isn't God also considered "omnirational" in theology? That seems like a pretty important quality for the ultimate cause of everything.

He is! But you were talking only about omniscience, not rationality. One could argue that omnibenevolence follows from perfect rationality if one thinks that it's rational to behave morally. I was just saying that it doesn't follow from omniscience, because that's something different. Rationality implies a goal-oriented element, which simple knowledge doesn't.

How does that follow? I'm talking about moral dispositions as inclinations to act a certain way; for instance, sex drive, jealousy, empathy, etc. There are no features that could override perfect rationality, so I can't see how he would be disposed to do anything other than what is moral.

I wouldn't call those moral dispositions. Those are just instincts or emotions. A moral disposition is an inclination to act in a certain morally significant way. God would certainly have moral dispositions - if, for example, he tends to act in a way that benefits his creatures, then that's a moral disposition. If he does so because it's the rational thing to do, and he's perfectly rational, then his moral dispositions derive from his perfect rationality.
 
Ah, but that's your experience, based on the fact that you're a basically decent person. I'm not so optimistic about humanity as a whole. Just to take a current example: Marion Zimmer Bradley certainly knew that emotional, physical, and sexual abuse of vulnerable people is wrong, as is clear from her books. Yet she systematically abused her daughter in all these ways over many years. Now perhaps she, and others who do what they know to be wrong, are suffering from some kind of temporary amnesia or blindness; they know it's wrong, yet somehow in the moment other factors in the mind block out that knowledge. (This is what Aristotle thought happens.) But even if that's true, they're still doing things that they generally know to be wrong. And I don't believe that every criminal or wrongdoer rationalises what they do to make it right in their own mind. Indeed, isn't the very wrongness of an action sometimes what makes it all the more alluring?

Still, we're talking about human psychology here. Perhaps, as a matter of empirical fact, no-one ever does what they fully and genuinely know in that moment to be wrong. But that doesn't mean there couldn't be a person who does. We can imagine a Dr Evil character, for whom the evilness of an act is a motive to do it, even if he couldn't exist in reality. The question wasn't about actual human beings but about God, and whether benevolence follows necessarily from omniscience. And it still seems to me that motive is distinct from knowledge. An omniscient being may know all moral facts, but I don't see why this should necessarily mean that he is motivated only to do what is right.

I don't agree.

I think reasoning this way, about Dr Evil, must lead to an inevitable contradiction: someone who likes evilness for its own sake, but simultaneously doesn't. But I'm not at all sure that I can demonstrate this to your satisfaction.

Let me return to child abusers: they think their own gratification trumps that of their victims; thereby breaking the Universal moral truth of Be Excellent to Each Other (for a discussion of which see the thread on Where do human rights come from?). And in this case, their "knowledge" is simply imperfect. They believe that they are somehow separate from their victims. (As do we all, to a degree.)

I'm confident that I can do this with every practical example you can suggest.

But, as I say, I'm less confident that I can demonstrate this with the mathematical rigour which you might demand. (A useful line of reasoning might be the degree to which we see ourselves as separate from each other, but I'm really uncertain how to pursue it.)

Yet don't the theologically-minded generally conflate Knowledge, Truth, Compassion, Omniscience, and Benevolence?
 
Can we describe God in human terms at all? If we are irrational, then we describe God as irrational. If we consider knowledge as important, then God is omniscient. If we are evil, then God is evil. We tend to view a god outside of us just a little more than we are to use as an outside spiritual control mechanism. If we are humanist, we do not even need a god. We are our own god.

"God" would then just be an artificial control mechanism to cover up the weakness of human short comings. Humans would not be able to control nature, but they could use an unknown to control other humans by manipulating human acquiescence to physical laws.

Humans will attempt any justification of their actions. Removing it from the physical to the unknown can be more efficient. Of course once humans realize they are being duped, that control vanishes. Humans then have to come up with better forms of control.

There does need to be a mechanism whereby those who are abused can be free from such abuse, but there is no perfect way, unless the abusers themselves make the choice to stop being abusive.
 
I have to admit I'd never heard of them before you mentioned them here, so I had to look them up! It seems they're not part of the Anglican communion, being a breakaway church formed in protest at too much liberalisation within Anglicanism, and are only in communion with the more insanely bigoted Anglican churches in Africa - though it seems there are moves to have them recognised and Justin Welby has been quite open to them. So evidently they're being thought about a lot at the higher levels, but whether they mean anything to the Anglican in the pew, I don't know.

Evidently, though, if they're a conservative church formed in reaction to what they perceive as overly liberal developments in Anglicanism (and the US Episcopalian Church is very liberal), you would expect them to be using traditionalist liturgies, vestments, etc.
That about reflects my experience with them. It's funny, because the church that ran my school started out as nondenominational Charismatic before drifting into Anglo-Catholic mode. I know a few of them, including a couple of families, a deacon, and a friar, who've gone all out with traditionalism and become Orthodox, and there's apparently been some talk about the ACNA entering the Orthodox Church and using the Liturgy of St. Tikhon, which is more or less the Book of Common Prayer liturgy with some Orthodox-friendly edits.

Along those lines, I've known a few authors from the middle of the 20th century who seem curiously optimistic that complete Anglican-Orthodox unity will be accomplished in the near future. (Fr. Sergei Bulgakov is the first such author to come to mind.) This seems like quite a loft goal now, but were such hopes ever realistic? And if so, what happened that made them stop being so?
Not for evangelicals. Ministers at an Anglican evangelical church would normally wear normal clothes, or - if they're particularly formal - clerical suits with dog collars. Evangelical churches would never use vestments. The only time you'd see an evangelical Anglican priest in vestments would be if he's working at a church that is not as evangelical as he is.

Remember that evangelicals of any denomination don't believe in priests. An evangelical Anglican priest would call himself a "vicar" (even if he's not strictly speaking a vicar) or, more generally, a "minister" - never a "priest", even though that's what he is. (And I say "he" advisedly, since hardcore evangelicals are opposed to the ministry of women.)
Interesting stuff. I had no idea this group really existed. I suppose in America they'd probably just join up with an established Evangelical-friendly denomination rather than working within Anglicanism. Can you recommend a good primer reading on Evangelicalism in the CoE, lest I bombard you with more questions?
 
Ah, but that's your experience, based on the fact that you're a basically decent person. I'm not so optimistic about humanity as a whole. Just to take a current example: Marion Zimmer Bradley certainly knew that emotional, physical, and sexual abuse of vulnerable people is wrong, as is clear from her books. Yet she systematically abused her daughter in all these ways over many years. Now perhaps she, and others who do what they know to be wrong, are suffering from some kind of temporary amnesia or blindness; they know it's wrong, yet somehow in the moment other factors in the mind block out that knowledge. (This is what Aristotle thought happens.) But even if that's true, they're still doing things that they generally know to be wrong. And I don't believe that every criminal or wrongdoer rationalises what they do to make it right in their own mind. Indeed, isn't the very wrongness of an action sometimes what makes it all the more alluring?

Still, we're talking about human psychology here. Perhaps, as a matter of empirical fact, no-one ever does what they fully and genuinely know in that moment to be wrong. But that doesn't mean there couldn't be a person who does. We can imagine a Dr Evil character, for whom the evilness of an act is a motive to do it, even if he couldn't exist in reality. The question wasn't about actual human beings but about God, and whether benevolence follows necessarily from omniscience. And it still seems to me that motive is distinct from knowledge. An omniscient being may know all moral facts, but I don't see why this should necessarily mean that he is motivated only to do what is right.
A small contribution: I've seen or met several people who grant themselves immunity on personal grounds (it's not wrong if I do it and/or it's not wrong if it's done to him/her) or simply don't care (I'll do it anyway). People aren't always good or rational. Or, at least, not good or rational buy our definitions of it.

As you say, this is human psychology.
 
I don't agree.

I think reasoning this way, about Dr Evil, must lead to an inevitable contradiction: someone who likes evilness for its own sake, but simultaneously doesn't. But I'm not at all sure that I can demonstrate this to your satisfaction.

Let me return to child abusers: they think their own gratification trumps that of their victims; thereby breaking the Universal moral truth of Be Excellent to Each Other (for a discussion of which see the thread on Where do human rights come from?). And in this case, their "knowledge" is simply imperfect. They believe that they are somehow separate from their victims. (As do we all, to a degree.)

I'm confident that I can do this with every practical example you can suggest.

But, as I say, I'm less confident that I can demonstrate this with the mathematical rigour which you might demand. (A useful line of reasoning might be the degree to which we see ourselves as separate from each other, but I'm really uncertain how to pursue it.)

Really this just comes down to competing intuitions. It seems to me that I can imagine a person (whether or not one actually exists) for whom the moral wrongness of an action is no impediment at all to performing it. It seems to you that you can't. I don't know of any way to show who's right!

Yet don't the theologically-minded generally conflate Knowledge, Truth, Compassion, Omniscience, and Benevolence?

I don't think they conflate them - they just think they're all perfectly instantiated in God.

Along those lines, I've known a few authors from the middle of the 20th century who seem curiously optimistic that complete Anglican-Orthodox unity will be accomplished in the near future. (Fr. Sergei Bulgakov is the first such author to come to mind.) This seems like quite a loft goal now, but were such hopes ever realistic?

I don't know much about this, but I don't think they were ever particularly realistic. My impression is that they mainly came from the Anglican side on the part of Anglican theologians who fondly imagined that the Church of England's (dubious) claim to apostolic succession and middle-of-the-road approach to tradition and Scripture made it very similar to the Orthodox communion. I don't know how many Orthodox churchmen were convinced by this but I doubt it was very many.

And if so, what happened that made them stop being so?

Two words: women priests.

Interesting stuff. I had no idea this group really existed. I suppose in America they'd probably just join up with an established Evangelical-friendly denomination rather than working within Anglicanism. Can you recommend a good primer reading on Evangelicalism in the CoE, lest I bombard you with more questions?

Evangelicals are huge within the Church of England, being easily the most prominent group within it (from an outsider's perspective) and quite dominant too, although not as much as they'd like. Their pressure group Reform is a powerful player in internal affairs. (Note its founding date - 1993 - right during the debate about women priests; conservative evangelicals at the time were opposed to them. Today they're more bothered about homosexuality.) Bear in mind, though, that they are probably not quite as dominant as they seem, since evangelicals tend to make a lot more noise than the others.

Anglican evangelicals have had a great influence on evangelicalism and even Christianity in general beyond their church. You will surely have heard of the Alpha Course, an evangelical introduction to Christianity invented at the very influential Holy Trinity church, Brompton, by the evangelical Anglican minister Nicky Gumbel. That's spread throughout the world and throughout denominations. I saw a Catholic church in Malacca advertising it. And one of the most popular British spiritual writers, at least when I was young, was John Stott, an evangelical Anglican who was a permanent fixture on most church bookstalls (and, according to Time in 2005, one of the 100 most influential people in the world, an alarming thought). Jim Packer is another good example of an evangelical Anglican with enormous influence; he has been mainly based in Canada but comes from a British Anglican evangelical background.

You're right that evangelicalism in the US Episcopal Church is much less prominent. That church is more uniformly liberal. The Church of England is unusual even among Anglican churches in being extremely varied, containing as it does three quite distinct and powerful wings - the evangelicals, the Anglo-Catholics, and the liberals - as well as a lot somewhere in the middle. Most other denominations are predominantly one or the other of these. You may notice that there's an informal tradition of alternating an evangelical Archbishop of Canterbury with a liberal one. So the last four have been Robert Runcie (liberal), George Carey (evangelical), Rowan Williams (liberal), and Justin Welby (evangelical). Like most leaders, though, archbishops tend to be on the moderate side of whichever wing they represent, so outsiders may not always appreciate the differences.

As for books, I'm just not familiar enough with contemporary Anglican church matters to recommend any. There must be many out there though.
 
Hi, a specific question (iirc i had asked Plotinus this some months ago, but maybe others have varied answers :) ) :

Which theologian (possibly of the 'dark ages' and in western europe) suggested that humans are collectively a kind of sensory organ (eg eyesight) of a god?

There is the (somewhat) similar aphorism that 'Deus est anima brutorum', meaning 'god is the soul of the animals', but i need info on the other claim :)
 
I don't know much about this, but I don't think they were ever particularly realistic. My impression is that they mainly came from the Anglican side on the part of Anglican theologians who fondly imagined that the Church of England's (dubious) claim to apostolic succession and middle-of-the-road approach to tradition and Scripture made it very similar to the Orthodox communion. I don't know how many Orthodox churchmen were convinced by this but I doubt it was very many.
It's curious that Bulgakov was optimistic about unity then. Perhaps he had a different perspective. I know St. Tikhon of Moscow approved a modified version of the Book of Common Prayer for Orthodox use, but that was more for purposes of bringing Episcopalians into Orthodoxy than for a more conventional kind of union. Perhaps disagreement over what union would entail was one of the greater obstacles to its accomplishments.

What makes the CoE's claim dubious?
You're right that evangelicalism in the US Episcopal Church is much less prominent. That church is more uniformly liberal. The Church of England is unusual even among Anglican churches in being extremely varied, containing as it does three quite distinct and powerful wings - the evangelicals, the Anglo-Catholics, and the liberals - as well as a lot somewhere in the middle. Most other denominations are predominantly one or the other of these. You may notice that there's an informal tradition of alternating an evangelical Archbishop of Canterbury with a liberal one. So the last four have been Robert Runcie (liberal), George Carey (evangelical), Rowan Williams (liberal), and Justin Welby (evangelical). Like most leaders, though, archbishops tend to be on the moderate side of whichever wing they represent, so outsiders may not always appreciate the differences.

Where would NT Wright fit into this trichotomy? The New Perspective on Paul strikes me as Anglo-Catholic, but it's possible I'm misinterpretting that.

On a different note, do you think the ideas of Divine Simplicity and the Trinity are at odds? What have the different approaches to reconciling them been? I've read that St. Gregory of Nyssa held to both Social Trinitiarianism and Divine Simplicity. Did he ever address the apparent contradition?
 
Hi, a specific question (iirc i had asked Plotinus this some months ago, but maybe others have varied answers :) ) :

Which theologian (possibly of the 'dark ages' and in western europe) suggested that humans are collectively a kind of sensory organ (eg eyesight) of a god?

There is the (somewhat) similar aphorism that 'Deus est anima brutorum', meaning 'god is the soul of the animals', but i need info on the other claim :)

I'm afraid I've just never heard of this. The closest I can think of is the idea, associated with Newton, that the whole of space is God's "sensorium" or sensory organ. But I don't know of anyone saying this of human beings. It doesn't seem to me it would be very orthodox as it would suggest that God is dependent on human beings for his omniscience.

What translations/editions would you recommend for reading Duns Scotus?

Any you can get hold of, really. There aren't very many, and Scotus is brutally hard to read no matter what the edition, so I don't think it makes much difference.

What makes the CoE's claim dubious?

From the point of view of the C of E, it's not dubious, because Anglicans who care about such things take apostolic succession to require just the historical continuity of bishop to bishop going back to the apostles. And the Church of England has as much claim to that as any other church, since it can trace itself back to Augustine of Canterbury and Gregory the Great. But from an Orthodox point of view, the question isn't so clear, because the Orthodox typically take apostolic succession to involve more than this. It also involves uniformity of practice and belief. There is no clear position on whether Anglican churches have sufficient uniformity with Orthodox churches to count as having apostolic succession. But as I understand it, Anglican priests who convert to Orthodoxy are not considered Orthodox priests, and must be reconsecrated; so in practice Anglican claims to apostolic succession are not taken seriously.

It's clearer in the Catholic Church, which simply rejects Anglican claims to apostolic succession on the grounds that Anglican orders are straightforwardly invalid since they are rivals to Catholicism.

Where would NT Wright fit into this trichotomy? The New Perspective on Paul strikes me as Anglo-Catholic, but it's possible I'm misinterpretting that.

Wright is certainly an evangelical, though a relatively mild one. You're right that the New Perspective is quite contrary to traditional evangelical ways of understanding the Bible, and so Wright is controversial within evangelical circles for that. He's effectively a spokesperson within evangelicalism for the New Perspective, bringing it to the evangelicals, if you like. But there's no real inconsistency. Although the New Perspective means understanding Paul in a way different from how evangelicals have traditionally done, that doesn't in itself entail rejecting any traditional evangelical doctrines, let alone viewing the Bible itself differently. Wright rejects the term "inerrant" for the Bible but that's more because of the overtones it's taken on; I think that in practice he regards it as infallible at least. (Assuming you can see any distinction between these two terms - I'm not sure I can.)

More conservative evangelicals regard him as dangerously liberal though. From a non-evangelical viewpoint this seems pretty odd, but of course, extremists in any group always regard moderates within their own group with far more suspicion than they do people outside the group altogether.

On a different note, do you think the ideas of Divine Simplicity and the Trinity are at odds? What have the different approaches to reconciling them been? I've read that St. Gregory of Nyssa held to both Social Trinitiarianism and Divine Simplicity. Did he ever address the apparent contradition?

Quite what Gregory's position was on the Trinity is a matter of some contention. The traditional view is that he was a social Trinitarian. This is based on taking two short works of his - To Ablabius and Letter 38 (of Basil, actually written by Gregory) as definitive. In these works he likens the three Persons of the Trinity to three human beings, who are one because they are members of the same species; and from this starting point he then goes on to argue for their unity, on the grounds that all the things that make three human beings quite distinct, such as their location in space, material nature, etc. don't apply to God. However, Sarah Coakley has argued that this is the wrong way to interpret Gregory. If you start from works such as his much longer Against Eunomius or his Great Catechism you find a much more traditional and "Latin" approach to the Trinity. I don't know whether Coakley is right about this but it's certainly the case that Gregory was a complex and not always consistent thinker, so I'd be careful about categorising him too clearly. I don't remember whether he had much to say about divine simplicity though; he was more interested in emphasising the divine infinity, which at that time was a relatively novel idea.

I'd say that the doctrine of the Trinity could be inconsistent with divine simplicity depending on what you mean by "simplicity". If you take it to mean that there are no distinctions whatsoever within the Godhead then clearly they're incompatible. If you take it (in a Thomist way) to mean that God lacks the metaphysical distinctions found in created things, such as between form and matter, substance and accident, act and passivity, essence and existence, and so on, then I don't see why they should be incompatible. On this view the doctrine of divine simplicity is a statement or series of statements about the nature of the divine essence. And the doctrine of the Trinity is a statement that there are three Persons who instantiate that essence, though they constitute only one God. That in itself might be inconsistent, but if so, the inconsistency is internal to the doctrine and doesn't require the doctrine of divine simplicity to make it so.
 
What is the best method for reading Augustine? Keeping in mind that I know nothing about theology and very little about philosophy in general.
 
Augustine's quite readable. That's one of the reasons he's always been so popular.

The best method is just to start at the beginning and keep going until you reach the end. This isn't as obvious as you might think. In the Middle Ages, for example, Augustine was the authority on absolutely everything, and yet no-one actually read his books - they only read excerpts in anthologies. The idea of sitting down and just reading his texts as he intended them to be read seems not to have occurred to anyone until modern times. (Augustine is not alone in this - e.g. no-one read Plato properly in antiquity, and only in the Renaissance did anyone think it worthwhile doing so. Aristotle, on the other hand, was always read in full.)

As for what to read, that's up to you and will depend on why you want to read him, but there's a reason why most people would start with the Confessions.
 
Does it matter which translation I use?
 
God said let us make man in our image, so "they" made them male and female in their image

that was the 6th Day and it ended

God then took the man - the Adam (?) - eastward to the Garden and assigned him various chores

After some period of time God decides the Adam needs a companion and parades the animals before him but no companion is found so Eve is made. I have several questions:

1) Was Adam originally a "slave" of sorts?

That would support earlier myths from Iraq that describe the first peoples as "primitive workers" made by the gods for labor

2) Were Adam and Eve created on the 6th Day or afterward?

The reason I ask is earlier Iraqi myths claimed "Adapa" was a perfected man following a succession of increasingly modern peoples. I dont know about Adam but the story ~clearly shows Eve as a post-6th Day creation. And if "Adam" was also a generic term for humans, is it not possible Adam was made after the 6th Day too?

3) When God said let us make man and the result was male and female, wouldn't that suggest some of the "us" were female?

According to Iraqi myth it was Enki and Ninhursag (male and female) and various gods and goddesses who made people. The "Let Us" verse sounds like how the Sumerian version describes our creation, the lower gods rebelled at all the work and the solution was announced, let us bind our image onto an existing creature roaming Enki's Abzu (territory).

4) Do any Theologians see human evolution described in Genesis?

The Garden lies eastward from the original homeland from where the 6th Day people spread out. Adam was taken from that location. If the Garden = the Persian Gulf, the land lying westward is our original homeland. Thats S Arabia, Ethiopia and the Horn.

According to the science Ethiopia is our original homeland and we spread to the NE toward the Red Sea. I see in Genesis not only evolution but eons of oral history with 'memories' of earlier peoples who died out. Even the Zulu have a myth about their ancient ancestors waging war on the ape men.
 
Does it matter which translation I use?

I don't think so. There are masses of translations. As long as it's one you find readable, that's the main thing. Augustine wrote very readable Latin (if that's not a contradiction in terms) so if the translation is stiff and archaic it's not accurate.

God said let us make man in our image, so "they" made them male and female in their image

that was the 6th Day and it ended

God then took the man - the Adam (?) - eastward to the Garden and assigned him various chores

After some period of time God decides the Adam needs a companion and parades the animals before him but no companion is found so Eve is made. I have several questions:

1) Was Adam originally a "slave" of sorts?

That would support earlier myths from Iraq that describe the first peoples as "primitive workers" made by the gods for labor

2) Were Adam and Eve created on the 6th Day or afterward?

The reason I ask is earlier Iraqi myths claimed "Adapa" was a perfected man following a succession of increasingly modern peoples. I dont know about Adam but the story ~clearly shows Eve as a post-6th Day creation. And if "Adam" was also a generic term for humans, is it not possible Adam was made after the 6th Day too?

3) When God said let us make man and the result was male and female, wouldn't that suggest some of the "us" were female?

According to Iraqi myth it was Enki and Ninhursag (male and female) and various gods and goddesses who made people. The "Let Us" verse sounds like how the Sumerian version describes our creation, the lower gods rebelled at all the work and the solution was announced, let us bind our image onto an existing creature roaming Enki's Abzu (territory).

4) Do any Theologians see human evolution described in Genesis?

The Garden lies eastward from the original homeland from where the 6th Day people spread out. Adam was taken from that location. If the Garden = the Persian Gulf, the land lying westward is our original homeland. Thats S Arabia, Ethiopia and the Horn.

According to the science Ethiopia is our original homeland and we spread to the NE toward the Red Sea. I see in Genesis not only evolution but eons of oral history with 'memories' of earlier peoples who died out. Even the Zulu have a myth about their ancient ancestors waging war on the ape men.

I really don't know much about Genesis. But I don't understand this desire to find in it all kinds of improbable scientific knowledge. For one thing, the story of the six days of creation (including the story of the creation of human beings on the sixth day) and the story of Eve being made from Adam's ribs are from completely different sources. The author of Genesis has stuck them together rather artificially. They are different creation myths, not separate parts of the same myth. You can tell this because in the six days story, the world is created first, complete with animals and vegetation, and then human beings are created last and put in the world. But in the Adam and Eve story, Adam is created first, and then the world of animals and vegetation is created around him.

So you can't use one of the stories to interpret the other. Asking whether Adam and Eve were created on the sixth day is a meaningless question because Adam and Eve come from a different story. It's like asking whether Gandalf attended Hogwarts. So, no, you can't draw a distinction between "the sixth-day people" on the one hand and "Adam and Eve" on the other, as if they are part of the same narrative; and Genesis is not trying to teach that there were hominids before Adam and Eve who were earlier on the evolutionary path. The power of human recollection, especially in pre-literate peoples, is amazing, but I don't think that the Hebrews or anyone else retained memories of events 60,000 years in the past. That's a period of time thirty times as long as the time since Julius Caesar invaded Britain, and I can assure you that no-one around here remembers that.

There certainly are theologians, both Christian and Jewish, who believe in both evolution and the literal truth of Genesis, on the grounds that what Genesis describes matches what science tells us about evolution. I think this is a hopeless argument. If nothing else, there's no way to reconcile Genesis' claim that birds were created at the same time as fish, before land animals, with science.
 
I don't think so. There are masses of translations. As long as it's one you find readable, that's the main thing. Augustine wrote very readable Latin (if that's not a contradiction in terms) so if the translation is stiff and archaic it's not accurate.
Well, Latin is readable if you're a Latin-speaker… ;)
Romance speakers can attempt it with varying degrees of success. Profficient or native speakers of Romance languages who also speak Latin are usually better than speakers of other languages.

Problems can arise with translations themselves, I'd recommend a modern one. Words change meaning far more frequently and quickly than people think -I learned this from reading Edward Gibbon- so the more modern the translator, usually the better it it for the reader.
Plotinus said:
{Genesis}
I'm almost sure this was on one of the earlier threads, but where do the 'other men' come from? Do you have any good readings on that? Was there an earlier answer along these serial threads?
 
I'm almost sure this was on one of the earlier threads, but where do the 'other men' come from? Do you have any good readings on that? Was there an earlier answer along these serial threads?

Not sure what you mean by this - can you specify?

Awesome. Any words of advice before I tear into it?

Ideally it would help to read Henry of Ghent first, because that's who Scotus is normally engaging with. But Henry's not much easier to read than Scotus himself, and to understand Henry you usually have to start with Aquinas... and so it goes back! This is one reason why scholastic philosophy is difficult.

A better solution might be to read Scotus alongside a modern explanation of his thought. Allan Wolter and Richard Cross are the Big Names in Scotus studies.
 
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