Ask an Israel-American

[useless]

Lillefix; There's Chaldeans...

 

[civ2]

Actually, all these modern "versions" are really just mixtures of local and not-so local nations.
And by unchanged I meant that Jews use, read, study and live according to the same Torah today, as they did 3000 years ago.
The only difference is the depth of the contemporary commentaries.
Again, bringing in the quark physics example:
When professors talk about a new discovery, they definitely use less explanation of term, that if they had to tell a lecture to mere students, and in case of laymen, they would have to write entire books to explain each simply-looking formula.
That's how Torah works too.
What needs thousands of pages of "digestion" for us, was clear in just a few words for Moses' generation - while the information itself hadn't changed at all.

 

[momo1000]

I don't and won't care what others think - I hold by the Torah view that "normal" Jews are observant Orthodox ones.
That doesn't mean that those not-yet observant are not Jews, this "definition" is more against those who think that they shouldn't be observant at all and consider THAT normal.
Since the very first Jew, there were Jews and those who held us for idiots.
But we're here, unchanged, - and how many "types" of opposition disappeared into the fog of history???
(You know, ancient Greeks, Romans, not to mention all the neighbors of Israel... All were there - and where are they now???)

The Jews are NOT unchanged! Only the Kerits are unchanged! You are forgetting the Mishnah, the Gemerah, Rashi, Rambam, etc.! All of our traditions! Your Judaism wouldn't exist and it certainly isn't the same as "original" Judaism! Quit being a hypocrite and live and let live.

 

[civ2]

Live and let live is the wrong principle here.
Cause the problems only start there...
OK, let's finish this while we didn't yet went over the line.

momo, again I wish you all the best - and most important to find your REAL self, be it Jewish or otherwise - but the REAL one, the REAL you.
Good luck!!!

 

[momo1000]

No, I'm not finishing this. You disrespected my mother. If she is not really Jewish, then neither is Ruth! She is the ancestress of King David, so that means that HE is not really Jewish according to you. Isn't the Meshiach descended from David? So does that mean your precious Meshiach is not Jewish??

Even if you choose to ignore my argument, Ruth is still a Moabite. Israelites are forbidden from marrying Moabites in the Torah. So David and the Meshiach are descendants of sin, no?

 

[civ2]

momo
I'd rather call it preventive warning, mainly intended to YOU.
So that YOU wouldn't have "unpleasant surprises" some other day.
About Ruth.
Sources in Talmud that clearly say "he" and not "she":
http://halakhah.com/yebamoth/yebamoth_76.html#PARTb
http://halakhah.com/yebamoth/yebamoth_77.html

Btw, by saying "your Moshiach", you sound as if separating yourself from that concept, even though it's one of the very BASICS of Judaism, according to all opinions (they disagree on details, not on actual concept).
Be careful what you say, or rather what you think.

 

[kochman]

This thread is getting uninteresting...
Can we go back to asking I-J's questions?

How about this...

Do you think Obama supports Israel enough?

 

[Dean.]

We kick Greek butt with the help of Rome who turn on us (typical Romans) and destroy our Temple and exile us. Skip forward a couple thousand years and BOOM! Israel is back in action, 1948, and everybody around us hates us. The End.

What an incredibly insufficient explanation. I guess it makes sense to leave out the ethnic cleansing of Palestinian neighborhoods to make way for Jewish-only settlements throughout the history of the founding of Israel, if you want to support the latter.

To be fair, Israel is not alone in this; the US, Australia, and countless other nations were built on such histories of ethnic cleansing. The difference is that (in most cases) a majority of the targeted population no longer live in such squalor or experience daily segregationist policies. In Israel and her possessions, racism is alive and well and enshrined into law in order to maintain an explicitly anti-pluralist regime.

Full support. Anything to get less nukes in madmen's hands.

Right, so a nation with a history of invasion, ethnic cleansing and annexation of land (Israel) is allowed a pseudo-hidden nuclear arsenal, at that the single most intimate ally of the only regime known to have used nuclear arms to attack civilian population centers (the US).

Juxtapose that against Iran, which hasn't invaded another nation in more than 100 years.

The history of the United States and her allies is one of brutality and intensive war. This is why the western narrative focuses so much on perceived American exceptionalism and cultural, rather than material moral doctrine. The Americans and their allies are great at describing Utopia and even in describing how targeted assassinations of minors can be morally justified, but make absolutely no attempt to create a more peaceful, just world. Quite the contrary.

If you look at the numbers, the "morality" in Western military campaigns is an absurd comedy. Your incredibly culturalist, dismissive narrative about the founding of Israel - which is regime founded on racial purism - betrays the same bigotry and reductionism characteristic of the western "moral terror."

 

[momo1000]

This thread is getting uninteresting...
Can we go back to asking I-J's questions?

How about this...

Do you think Obama supports Israel enough?

I agree . I think Obama's recent faux pause was pretty bad, but I can sort of agree. Bibi is pretty annoying

What an incredibly insufficient explanation. I guess it makes sense to leave out the ethnic cleansing of Palestinian neighborhoods to make way for Jewish-only settlements throughout the history of the founding of Israel, if you want to support the latter.

To be fair, Israel is not alone in this; the US, Australia, and countless other nations were built on such histories of ethnic cleansing. The difference is that (in most cases) a majority of the targeted population no longer live in such squalor or experience daily segregationist policies. In Israel and her possessions, racism is alive and well and enshrined into law in order to maintain an explicitly anti-pluralist regime.

The way I was raised (which might have been indoctrination, I don't know) is that yes, Israel did do awful things in 1948, but they were necessary for the protection of the state. I'm NOT defending forcing people to leave their homes and become refugees, but I DO support my state. Maybe blame Hitler for making so many Jews leave Europe and cling to safety of Israel, or maybe the 36-39 Arab Revolts that made it so Britain didn't want to give the Palestinians a country.

Right, so a nation with a history of invasion, ethnic cleansing and annexation of land (Israel) is allowed a pseudo-hidden nuclear arsenal, at that the single most intimate ally of the only regime known to have used nuclear arms to attack civilian population centers (the US).

Juxtapose that against Iran, which hasn't invaded another nation in more than 100 years.

The history of the United States and her allies is one of brutality and intensive war. This is why the western narrative focuses so much on perceived American exceptionalism and cultural, rather than material moral doctrine. The Americans and their allies are great at describing Utopia and even in describing how targeted assassinations of minors can be morally justified, but make absolutely no attempt to create a more peaceful, just world. Quite the contrary.

If you look at the numbers, the "morality" in Western military campaigns is an absurd comedy. Your incredibly culturalist, dismissive narrative about the founding of Israel - which is regime founded on racial purism - betrays the same bigotry and reductionism characteristic of the western "moral terror."

Are you attacking me, Israel, or America? FYI, Israel is not a regime. It is the only democracy in the Middle East (currently). And the only times Israel has ever attacked first was because war was about to be declared. Take the 6 Day War for example. Israel bombed Egyptian bombers right before they could take off and bomb innocent civilians. How is that "moral terror"?

 

[Ajidica]

And the only times Israel has ever attacked first was because war was about to be declared.

You forgot the Suez Crisis, where Israel coordinated an effort with Britain and France where Israel invade Egypt so Britain and France could intervene to 'protect' the canal.

or maybe the 36-39 Arab Revolts that made it so Britain didn't want to give the Palestinians a country.

Source? It has been my understanding that the Brits didn't want either side to become independent and the UN comission on the British Mandate did the split, irrespective of British wishes.

 

[momo1000]

You forgot the Suez Crisis, where Israel coordinated an effort with Britain and France where Israel invade Egypt so Britain and France could intervene to 'protect' the canal.


Source? It has been my understanding that the Brits didn't want either side to become independent and the UN comission on the British Mandate did the split, irrespective of British wishes.

Egypt was blockading the Port of Eilat prior to the war. So, yeah, they started it.

That's just what I was taught. Sorry, no source.

 

[Ajidica]

Egypt was blockading the Port of Eilat prior to the war. So, yeah, they started it.

I wasn't aware a blockade constituted a declaration of war, especialy after all of the legal hair-splitting Israel went through to get the Gaza blockade not considered an act of war.

 

[Camikaze]

Moderator Action: @civ2- as far as I know, you have not suddenly become an Israeli-American. Leave the thread.

General warning for all those who wish to turn this 'Ask A...' into 'Argue with A...'. Don't do it.

 

[momo1000]

I wasn't aware a blockade constituted a declaration of war, especialy after all of the legal hair-splitting Israel went through to get the Gaza blockade not considered an act of war.

Israel is an official country. Palestine is a territory. Isn't America blockaded Cuba still?

 

[Ajidica]

Israel is an official country. Palestine is a territory.

So now it is a blockade against a part of the country? I think the UN and ICJ had a little thing to say about that, using Sarajevo as an example for condemnation.

Isn't America blockaded Cuba still?

Yah, the blockade is still up, but it only affects people coming from America or coming to America. If I wanted to go to Cuba I just have to hop on a plane Mexico and travel to Cuba from there. The 'blockade', such as it is (I don't recall if we even have any ships still patrolling it besides Coast Guard), is a relic of Cold Warrior mentality, not an actively pursued and discussed US policy.
(For the record, I advocate the ending of the blockade of Cuba.)

 

[jtb1127]

Do you think that the ultra-Orthodox Jews, who live in Israel, and whose population doubles every ten years, and are virtually untaxed, and don't do anything besides read, and are called the Haredi, pose any significant problems to Israel?

 

[warpus]

What or who is the Moshiach?

 

[Seron]

Having just seen this, I had to post since I was born in Haifa. While I am not a citizen (I am an American and Australian Citizen) I did live there when I was quite young and have many pictures.

 

[momo1000]

Haifa Represent!!

 

[momo1000]

Do you think that the ultra-Orthodox Jews, who live in Israel, and whose population doubles every ten years, and are virtually untaxed, and don't do anything besides read, and are called the Haredi, pose any significant problems to Israel?

Well, yeah I guess. They take the tax money from the government instead of working.

What or who is the Moshiach?

Mashiach (משי&#1495 = Messiah