Bacon the new hate crime.

[JollyRoger]

I stand corrected you do have the right to offend but if your white and male you'll get reamed for it because the "rev" Jackson will swarm to you like a fly on poop.

The whole Sharpton-Jackson side of this story does bother me. Personally, I think people like Imus should bypass that particular apology tour.

Back on topic whos case do you think the ACLU would take? The fire bombing of a jewish building or "The great Bacon Paper Caper"?

Well, the ACLU would likely be willing to offer help in both cases if asked (if the Canadian case had occured in the U.S.). They support the Free Exercise Clause of the 1st Amendment and would likely see both cases as intimidation to the free exercise of religion.

 

[Urederra]

So what other reason would someone have for doing it then?

Ummm.... to mark the page?

 

[skadistic]

Any proof that the Council for American Islamic Relations (CAIR) is terrorist funded?

Hard proof is difficult since CAIR refuses to disclose its books. Pluss it was founded by terrorists like Nihad Awad. Its a hamas front and gets funding from them. But I'm sure some people will tell you hamas isn't a terror org. It also supports terror orgs and will not denounce terror tactics.

http://www.adl.org/Israel/cair.asp

CAIR ain't the happy go lucky muslim enlightenment service they want you to think they are.

 

[skadistic]

The whole Sharpton-Jackson side of this story does bother me. Personally, I think people like Imus should bypass that particular apology tour.

Well, the ACLU would likely be willing to offer help in both cases if asked (if the Canadian case had occured in the U.S.). They support the Free Exercise Clause of the 1st Amendment and would likely see both cases as intimidation to the free exercise of religion.

I know I just wanted to use "The Great Bacon Paper Caper" line.

 

[Drewcifer]

I would categorize this as a classless prank rather than a hate crime. The person who did this is obviously a douchebag but if we started locking people up for that we would have to build a lot more prisons.

The problem is that if the powers that be overreact to the little things it will turn people against these kinds of laws and then there will be less legal protection when the big things happen.

 

[Stylesjl]

Blowing up a synoguage might not be because they hated jews. However I think stuffing bacon in a Koran is a pretty good indication that someone doesn't like Muslims (though stuffing bacon in a Koran isn't a crime, right?)

 

[.Shane.]

So what other reason would someone have for doing it then?

A bad joke? Just to be annoying? Just to be rude? If I give someone the finger, is that a hate crime?

I have no desire to rip your flag or anybody else's. The point is that such an act, which is just as 'harmless' would create the same stir.

The US flag is burned pretty frequently and while some people get all bent out of shape over it, I've never once heard of law enforcement investigating a flag burning as a "hate crime".

 

[Stylesjl]

Either way, I don't think it should be a crime unless it was deliberate, constant harassment.

 

[Tee Kay]

It's interesting people are constantly developing new creative ways to say "I hate you".

 

[aussieboy]

Sheesh! That's why I don't like the concept of 'hate crime'. All crimes are hate crimes. Simple as that.

 

[CaptainF]

Just a prank, if that.

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

The idea of a hate crime is rather stupid anyways. A crime is a crime, end of story. (Crosspost with aussieboy). This seems like a prank.

What would happen if I tied up a pig to a Jewish Synagogue....

 

[Narz]

Well, the process of making a pig into bacon is pretty gruesome. It's funny, if you believed in all the world's religions together you'd be pretty much vegetarian (well, maybe plus fish).

 

[El_Machinae]

What would happen if I tied up a pig to a Jewish Synagogue....

All the truffles nearby would be eaten.

 

[plarq]

It's hate but not crime.

Actually the whole thing jeopardize muslims stand in US. Self-alienation anyone?

 

[Hygro]

The whole Idea of a hate crime is silly, a crime is a crime. We don't need thought police going around trying to put people in jail for what they were thinking, we need real police to put people in jail for doing real crimes.

Hate crimes are legitimate because they are a form of terrorism that goes beyond the crime. If a black man is murdered for "talking fresh" to a white woman, it works to intimidate a race of people living in that area. If a gay man is beaten for being himself, it works to encourage all gay men to hide that part of themselves.

 

[aussieboy]

Hate crimes are legitimate because they are a form of terrorism that goes beyond the crime. If a black man is murdered for "talking fresh" to a white woman, it works to intimidate a race of people living in that area. If a gay man is beaten for being himself, it works to encourage all gay men to hide that part of themselves.

A murderer strikes terror into all of the neighborhood - black, white, gay, straight, Jew, Muslim and Christian. A murder is a murder is a murder. The justice system is there to punish the criminal for what he did, not try to social-engineer the neighborhood.

 

[ParkCungHee]

A murder is a murder is a murder.

Which is why they have something called "Mitigating Circumstances", right?

 

[Hygro]

A murderer strikes terror into all of the neighborhood - black, white, gay, straight, Jew, Muslim and Christian. A murder is a murder is a murder. The justice system is there to punish the criminal for what he did, not try to social-engineer the neighborhood.

When a murderer, or what have you, commits a hate crime, the murderer is trying to socially engineer the community--one in which the hated demographic submits to oppression and terror. When a crime is not a hate crime, the community does not have to fear in the same way. People in a bad neighborhood might not often walk alone at night for fear of being accosted, but that is no way on the same level as fearing being yourself--as in to hide or shield an integral part of who you are (an independant black man, a gay man, or what have you) for fear of physical violence is far worse.

Spoiler :

An aside to the main argument: I believe one reason why so many white people have trouble with this hate-crime concept is that rarely has a crime terrorized white, straight, able-bodied men the way a hate-crime would, and therefore because they've never felt that hate, they don't sympathize and therefore don't agree with hate crimes. I myself used to find hate crimes stupid until I studied American history and branched out from my narrow socio-racial sub-community

 

[aussieboy]

When a murderer, or what have you, commits a hate crime, the murderer is trying to socially engineer the community--one in which the hated demographic submits to oppression and terror. When a crime is not a hate crime, the community does not have to fear in the same way. People in a bad neighborhood might not often walk alone at night for fear of being accosted, but that is no way on the same level as fearing being yourself--as in to hide or shield an integral part of who you are (an independant black man, a gay man, or what have you) for fear of physical violence is far worse.

Spoiler :

An aside to the main argument: I believe one reason why so many white people have trouble with this hate-crime concept is that rarely has a crime terrorized white, straight, able-bodied men the way a hate-crime would, and therefore because they've never felt that hate, they don't sympathize and therefore don't agree with hate crimes. I myself used to find hate crimes stupid until I studied American history and branched out from my narrow socio-racial sub-community

The job of the criminal justice system is to find the perpetrator and punish him as a perpetrator - not to tighten the screws simply because he spray-painted a swastika near the crime scene or what have you. The healing of racial tensions is a job for the social institutions (the clergy, the NGOs) to deal with

And as for the aside, I am certainly no white man. I've dealt with racial harrassment, I used to live in a neighborhoos where people committed various crimes on Asians in the community. I just believe that all crime is heinous, and the screws should not be tightened on the cause of racial history.