Because We Have a Problem: 2016 Forcasting List

You might want to edit that a bit to avoid a PDMA infraction, but the problem isn't the content, it's where it is.

None of the discussion earlier about Rand Paul's presidential chances were infracted because it was on-topic and relevant.

EDIT: Here's that map of early primaries, mostly PPPs and Quinnipacs over the last few months. Credit goes to the USElectionAtlas which keeps up with this stuff.

genusmap.php


Red: Rubio
Blue: Christie
Green: Ryan
Yellow: Bush
Brown: Paul
Pink: Cruz
I appreciate the map. I expect it to radically change after this weeks votes. Rubio should lose some ground. I don't expect Cruz to run in 2016 so you can expect 90% of his potential voters will gravitate towards Paul when the time comes. Rubio, Bush, Cristie split the establishment vote among them. Ryan won't run either. I expect his (few) supporters to dissipate among all the candidates.
 
On a scale of 1-10, where 1 was full on authoritarian, and 10 was full on libertarian, Rand Paul at best gets a score of 3. That's why the conservative rating groups love him so much. Cleavland wouldn't score higher.

Hell man, every Democratic president since Cleavland is better on liberty than Rand Paul is.
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Wilson? FDR? Obama? I might admire each for different reasons, especially FDR, but I wouldn't call them champions of liberty. How does Rand Paul rate more poorly on a liberty scale than a man who ran a loyalty campaign and threw anti-war protesters in jail, or a man who supports a litany of abusive legislation (PATRIOT act, NDAA, FISA, the whole sad laundry list) and drone warfare?

Edit: And if you don't want to discuss You Know Who in this thread, feel free to respond via PM.
 
On a scale of 1-10, where 1 was full on authoritarian, and 10 was full on libertarian, Rand Paul at best gets a score of 3. That's why the conservative rating groups love him so much. Cleavland wouldn't score higher.

Hell man, every Democratic president since Cleavland is better on liberty than Rand Paul is.

But that's not the point. The point was that a certain unnamed poster is warned to tread carefully in bringing certain things up because a certain poster, not just talks about such things, but in fact makes every thread exclusively about that thing, no matter whether it is otherwise part of the discussion or not. And makes it so that it becomes essentially impossible to take the conversation about any other thing.
Not sure what kind of mental gymnastics you have to perform to reach that conclusion about Paul. Did you read his op-ed in USA Today, today? He was railing against the Drug War. The only democrat, within the last 150 years, flirting with libertarianism has been Cleveland.

I think this is probably the most accurate assessment of the political paradigm. It's really about state tyranny vs. individual liberty, not red team vs. blue team.


Link to video.
 
Nobody cares. Some of us are coming here merely for political analysis and forecasting; not for your bullcrap policy debates. The only place policy discussion should have in this thread is how it will affect the prospective candidates in 2016 vis à vis their electability. If that is not what you are discussing take it to one of the 840935823905 other dull libertarian threads.
 
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So a question - as of now I would like to hear from you all who you all think will win the Democratic/Republican primaries on either side. I know it will change over the years as we get closer to 2016, but I just want to have it archived now and here in this thread for future reference to see how we change.

Pick only one winner per party:

Republicans: Bush III is my current pick
Democrats: Hillary
 
Moderator Action: Spam deleted (and infraction given). Keep the discussion directly topical (i.e. only talk about Rand Paul if you're directly discussing the likelihood of him being the GOP candidate; this means not discussing what his beliefs are).
 
So a question - as of now I would like to hear from you all who you all think will win the Democratic/Republican primaries on either side. I know it will change over the years as we get closer to 2016, but I just want to have it archived now and here in this thread for future reference to see how we change.

Pick only one winner per party:

Republicans: Bush III is my current pick
Democrats: Hillary

Hillary Clinton leads between 30 and 50 points on most polls of Democrats, if she runs she is the instant front-runner and only first-tier candidate. I'd give her around a 49% chance of being the eventual nominee, most of that is determined by the coin flip if she runs or not.

For the Republicans, it's harder to say and it's not my style to hazard a guess yet.
 
The Republican side is really a puzzle. For the first time in a long time no one on the Republican side really has the level of national prominence, without also carrying massive negative baggage, that any of the recent Republican nominees have had.

So if we rule out any current members of the House, because they never win, then who are the prominent Senators and governors? Because that is, for better or worse, your real candidate set.

So who decides? The Republicans have the problem that the big money backs those candidates that are most favorable to their economic agenda. But the base is sick of losing with "moderates" and the fact that those most favorable to the social agenda have not been winning the nomination. But their problem is largely self inflicted, in that those candidates most who most effectively talk the social conservative line can't do so without seeming like lunatics to all the other voters.
 
The Republican side is really a puzzle. For the first time in a long time no one on the Republican side really has the level of national prominence, without also carrying massive negative baggage, that any of the recent Republican nominees have had.

So if we rule out any current members of the House, because they never win, then who are the prominent Senators and governors? Because that is, for better or worse, your real candidate set.

So who decides? The Republicans have the problem that the big money backs those candidates that are most favorable to their economic agenda. But the base is sick of losing with "moderates" and the fact that those most favorable to the social agenda have not been winning the nomination. But their problem is largely self inflicted, in that those candidates most who most effectively talk the social conservative line can't do so without seeming like lunatics to all the other voters.

The more I listen to this, the more I wonder if Rand Paul really will win this thing after all.

I just don't see anyone else winning. Rubio, for better or worse, killed himself over immigration. I don't think anyone wants another Bush, other than George W. and Jeb himself (Heck, even Barbara Bush says "We've had enough Bushes, I think 98% of the country agrees with her.) Christie would do well in a general election, but I just don't see him holding together in a primary, considering how liberal he is compared to the average Republican. Let's be real, Ted Cruz is not going to run: His eligibility is questionable, and I think he wants Rand as an ally rather than direct competition. Rick Santorum might try again, but there's no way he gets nominated, and if he does, I can almost imagine a shutout by Hillary. MagisterCultuum mentioned Amash awhile ago, but he's in the House and even more "radical" If you want to call it that than even Rand Paul.

Its early, and I'm almost certain something is going to change, but if I had to bet on any single candidate, I honestly feel like it might have to be the senator in Ky (And I don't mean Mitch:lol:)
 
Ohio (OH) 2016: Clinton 47% - Rand 44%

From June 18 - 23, Quinnipiac University surveyed 941 registered voters with a margin of error of +/- 3.2 percentage points. Live interviewers call land lines and cell phones.

If the 2016 presidential election were today, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and New Jersey Gov. Christopher Christie are deadlocked 42 - 42 percent in the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University survey of this critical swing state. Ms. Clinton gets 47 percent to Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul's 44 percent.

Both potential GOP candidates top Vice President Joseph Biden, Christie by 50 - 32 percent and Paul by 49 - 40 percent.

"Ohio was the key state in both of President Barack Obama's elections and it was his strong showing among independent voters there that made the difference," said Peter Brown, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute. "President Obama's fortunes in the Buckeye State have turned. Since last December he has lost 10 points among Democrats and 17 points among independent voters. He has gone from a 20-point approval margin among women to a 9-point disapproval margin among female voters."

Quinnipiac Poll
 
Wrong thread if you don't understand why Dommy

Just know the American public [Except for the true right wing] loves her. Pretty much no way she could lose if she was the nominee
 
Just know the American public [Except for the true right wing] loves her. Pretty much no way she could lose if she was the nominee

Don't get carried away.

Her approval ratings have dropped like a stone since last year. While they are still relatively high for this day and age (I think the number was in the 50s), there are never any guarantees in politics, and to assume she is a shoe in is presumptuous.

Christie could give her quite the fight, as could Rand Paul -- aka, a GOPer who wouldn't be labelled as crazy by the media.

I'd put the odds at about 50/50 that she runs in the first place.
 
I'm not sure it would work, but I'd definitely say the media would try to make Rand Paul look crazy. They've already tried.

Now, Christie isn't crazy anything but left, and the media isn't going to jump on that. So he wouldn't be called crazy by the media.
 
Hillary Clinton: If she wants it, she'll take it. This isn't like 2008, when there was a huge section of the party that was against her. She's paid her dues.

Joe Biden: He's the only potential candidate that we know wants the job, because he hasn't been shy about making it clear. But he'd lose to Clinton, and I don't think he'd sweep the field if she didn't run. He's kind of let himself be pigeonholed into the comedy sidekick role, I'd like to see how he handles himself when running for office again.

Andrew Cuomo: If the first two don't run, he's considered the frontrunner. I'm kind of reminded of Giuliani though. New Yorkers with lots of name recognition, one big achievement that brought them scads of national attention, initial leads, and issues records too close to the center for the party to actually nominate them.

Martin O'Malley: His name comes up a lot and he seems like decent presidential material to me, but there's got to be a reason that he's getting such tepid support from his own party in Maryland after a string of liberal victories (death penalty, pot, gas taxes, gun control, offshore wind).

Deval Patrick: Like O'Malley, only with more scandals and less accomplishments. Pass.

Brian Schweitzer: Depends on how things go when he runs for Senate in 2014. On the one hand it's Montana, on the other he's crazy popular there. If he wins, he'd have pretty solid liberal credentials (gun control excepted) and still have won a very red state. Granted his style is pretty much the opposite of Obama, but if the hipster set wants another candidate they can vote for 'em.

John Hickenlooper: Worth talking about, and he's got some impressive policy successes under his belt. But it looks like he's going to have a serious fight against some not serious candidates in 2014. If he loses to Tom Tancredo, he's not going to go national.

Elizabeth Warren: Kind of the Ron Paul for internet liberals, only she's probably sane enough not to listen.

Antonio Villaraigosa: Almost certainly not going to happen, but he's the leading Hispanic candidate unless downtown jumps in.

I can't bloviate as much about Republicans because I pay less attention there and they're in a really chaotic space right now. But here goes nothing:

Bobby Jindal: We all know why he'd be good (big education, distinctive background) and why he wouldn't (Answering the SOTU speech is hard, but not that hard). What I'd add is that his approval ratings back in Louisiana polled at 38% back in April, way worse than they should be in such a red state. Obama actually runs stronger than him there.

Scott Walker: Not making a huge splash, but he's got chops. He pushed some really conservative bills past a light blue state, and survived the mother of all union backlashes.

Paul Ryan: Only House member elected to the White House was Lincoln. Paul Ryan isn't Lincoln.

Ted Cruz: I don't think the fact that's he's ridiculously conservative will hurt him, not given the base's hunger for Youtube-ready quips and the ability to prove that they aren't racist because they have a Mexican best friend. No, I think it's the fact that he's turned most of his Republican colleagues that will sink his chances in the end.

Rick Perry: I fell hard for the idea that Perry was the only plausible anti-Romney candidate, so I kind of want him to do well this go around and vindicate me. He's not the idiot that he came across as, and he might find a way to do it. With that said, I think Cruz is going to be sucking up all the oxygen in Texas.

Nicki Haley: Currently making noises about going to spend more time with her family after the one term. And as a mother with young children and a husband in the military, that's actually pretty plausible. Some people really do bow out of running for president to spare their families.

When it comes to the Republican nomination, I'm going to be watching high-profile endorsements like a hawk, specifically elected officials currently in office. They were a more reliable indicator than the news cycles in 2012, although that may have been unique to the facts of that election.
 
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