Can you point to the text of the Constitution that I missed when reading it?
No, no. That is proof that she is a victim of illegals stealing her job.
Can an American please answer a question?
- Thread starter Puck Nutty
- Start date
MobBoss, you know that you and I disagree over whether or not God exists. But I'm sure we both agree that Obama exists. So it's not unreasonable to concede that Obama is probably the person on this planet who is most qualified to know what he himself thinks, wouldn't you say?
I'm sure that even if Obama is gullible enough to buy into an ancient myth, he at least knows in his heart which one he is buying into.
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
Not swearing oaths would be more christian, as would refraining from showy public prayers. Hypocrisy was a very big deal to Jesus. The bible makes it clear that He much prefers those who reject him entirely over those who claim to follow him but show otherwise by their actions. Obama does not rate well based on this, but neither do the vast majority of politicians.
I don't think it is very christian to oppose immigration, even illegal immigration. Abusing poor immigrants rather than showing them hospitality is the sin of Sodom.
Jesus is one who often took advantage of the Gleaner's Rights, which The Law of Moses explicitly guaranteed to aliens as well as the Israelites. It thus seems pretty unchristian to try to deny services to aliens that are granted to natives.
Supporting abortion (except when the life of the mother is in danger) is certainly unchristian. Christ may not be quoted as condemning it specifically in the gospels, but abortion is very explicitly condemned in the Didache, which may well be older than the gospels themselves. The church has always been pro-life. (It seems probable that Jesus would have endorsed the principle of Pikuach nefesh and so defended abortion in circumstances where it is deemed necessary to save the mother's life though.)
Perhaps the most unchristian thing Obama does though is wage war.
I don't think it is very christian to oppose immigration, even illegal immigration. Abusing poor immigrants rather than showing them hospitality is the sin of Sodom.
Jesus is one who often took advantage of the Gleaner's Rights, which The Law of Moses explicitly guaranteed to aliens as well as the Israelites. It thus seems pretty unchristian to try to deny services to aliens that are granted to natives.
Supporting abortion (except when the life of the mother is in danger) is certainly unchristian. Christ may not be quoted as condemning it specifically in the gospels, but abortion is very explicitly condemned in the Didache, which may well be older than the gospels themselves. The church has always been pro-life. (It seems probable that Jesus would have endorsed the principle of Pikuach nefesh and so defended abortion in circumstances where it is deemed necessary to save the mother's life though.)
Perhaps the most unchristian thing Obama does though is wage war.
I remember reading about study a while back that found that swearing an oath on a bible actually does result in even atheists being more truthful. The same is true of being reminded of the 10 commandments, or of pretty much any sort of honor code though. Just thinking about a system of ethics, even one mostly rejects, leads to more ethical behavior.
MobBoss
Off-Topic Overlord
I wasnt disagreeing, except to point out the arguement is Obama being a Christian, ergo, one that believes in God, right? Hence my 'God knows as well' is perfectly applicable given the subject matter.
The other 'does a man know his heart' is a subject for a whole lot of other debate.
Formaldehyde
Both Fair And Balanced
Both certainly seem to have many Republicans completely stumped, especially the ones who employ the latter.
It's funny how so many Christians think they are experts on this particular topic, including those who are far more hypocritical than Obama will likely ever be.
And let's not forget about thinking abortion is such a grievous sin, but acting completely un-Christian by not providing proper healthcare or welfare for the expectant mother, and even the health and welfare for the baby as soon as it leaves the womb. All that is considered to be perfectly acceptable.
How many American Christians have ever been opposed to that in the vast majority of "wars", especially Republicans?
I'd love to read that "study". You typically don't have to remind atheists of the importance of morals like telling the truth under oath because they don't think that their "sins" are "forgiven".
wilycoyote
King
Yep, that is a subject for another debate, the debate where we also ask if we live in the matrix and if we can know anything and... If you want to argue that point, how can you? No one can know anything at that point if you won't even concede that a person knows himself/herself.
Berzerker
Deity
I dont see how a Christian can be Prez, they'd be enforcing all sorts of laws that violate the teachings of Jesus...I suppose that'd be true for a cop too.
Berzerker
Deity
Jesus said the path was narrow 
Formaldehyde
Both Fair And Balanced
He never met Ronald Reagan, much less George Bush.
That is what is so hilarious with the "Obama isn't a true Christian" argument.
That is what is so hilarious with the "Obama isn't a true Christian" argument.
timtofly
One Day
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2009
- Messages
- 9,445
Jesus said the path was narrow
I would think that the path that Jesus was talking about is even narrower than if a group of christians conspired to do something together. I think that a christian would be frustrated especially if they were faced with a possible war as a President. I personnaly don't think that a christian would make a great president. That is not the nature of a christian despite the historical nature to the contrary. I think they would make a fair leader in peace time, but here in the US, they are still constrained by the will of the people, contrary to the opinion that the pres is in charge of everything.
Berzerker
Deity
he's in charge of enforcing laws, that means he has two masters if the laws are in conflict with Jesus' teachings
if Jesus would not deport people, how can the Christian prez?
if Jesus would not deport people, how can the Christian prez?
timtofly
One Day
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2009
- Messages
- 9,445
Well for starters Jesus would have all the rich guys give away their fortunes to feed the poor and would probably throw out capitalism for communism...
I said a christian would make a fair pres, not a great one. I don't think it would be the athiest crying unless they were part of the corporate lifestyle that had to go.
Those two master we are talking about is "greed" and "love your neighbor as yourself". I am pretty sure which master most people would choose in a so called liberal setting. I think the communist have it figured out and some capitalist who are humanitarian. If you think that the two masters are God and mammon, you may have a hard time getting modern man to accept that. Jesus gave two commands and the second is more important unless you can prove the first. You can still serve God by putting others first. As far as know greed has always been the other choice.
Berzerker
Deity
Jesus made comments indicating a belief in property wrt the means of production, like the land owner deciding what he will pay his workers. I doubt he'd be imposing any system on people and that would leave "the market"
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
Jesus was certainly not a communist. He was in favor of private property and contracts. He did not think it right for an employee to complain about not being paid enough if he was paid what the employer promised when he agreed to do the job, regardless of how much others are getting paid for their work. He even supported depositing money in interest-bearing bank accounts.
He was also clearly in favor of gleaner's rights though. (He and his disciples themselves often depended on these to survive rather than work for a boss.) In his system, individuals would always have access to enough natural capital to have the option to be self employed. A landowner who did not compensate others for monopolizing his property was no better than a thief.
Christ's economics would be much closer to Georgism. He would be for a free market without special privilages for rich and with enough charity to care for the poor.
He was also clearly in favor of gleaner's rights though. (He and his disciples themselves often depended on these to survive rather than work for a boss.) In his system, individuals would always have access to enough natural capital to have the option to be self employed. A landowner who did not compensate others for monopolizing his property was no better than a thief.
Christ's economics would be much closer to Georgism. He would be for a free market without special privilages for rich and with enough charity to care for the poor.
Not me. If it takes swearing on an inanimate object to make somebody believe you, I wouldn't give much for the intelligence or the honor of the person making you do it.
My grandfather taught me about the "golden rule" when I was very young. Mind you, he didn't think it applied to him when dealing with me (he figured I had no right to my own opinion, since I was a female child - and even later, as an unmarried woman; even after I got married he would expect me to hold my future husband's opinions). One of the "honor codes" I remind myself of on a fairly regular basis comes from a line in the musical "The King and I": "A promise is a promise." The King was holding Anna to her promise to never let her head be higher than his - if he gave her a house of her own. Since he came through with his side of the deal, he expected her to uphold her side.
There's an interesting scene in Robert Heinlein's novel To Sail Beyond the Sunset where Maureen Johnson's father is asking her how she feels about the Ten Commandments and if they're what she personally thinks are adequate. She said she couldn't improve on "Thou shalt not steal." She changed her mind when he asked her if she would steal to feed a baby.
Do you see any other religion as being suitable for a President? What about an atheist, who wouldn't be hampered by any of the religious hypocrisies?
MobBoss
Off-Topic Overlord
Jesus said the path was narrow
Different context.
Well, we might just have our first ever Mormon president come November, but nope on the atheist. And the reason is your first sentence.
IdiotsOpposite
Boom, headshot.
Let's be honest here, people. The reason we won't have an atheist president is because too many Christians see atheists as willing followers of the devil.
MobBoss
Off-Topic Overlord
Well, what does the religion actually say about that? But thats not the reason I would primarily use, personally.
Similar threads
