Can an American please answer a question?

[MobBoss]

That shows how much you know about atheists. Good to know you're working with zero knowledge of the group involved.

What I know about atheists is what I've experienced.

Interesting... so do you think that a man who does not believe in God cannot be a good man? Is that because disbelief in God is enough to qualify you as a bad person? Or are you saying that without a father figure to watch over us, we'll never behave?

There are no good men....but some are certainly more rude than others.

@Valka, I think your morality, like a lot of people's, is relative....ergo most people will change their morality dependent upon a wide variety of factors. The earlier reference to the 'narrow path' is referring to the very small percentage that wont. Btw, i'm not stopping you from believing what you want either. What I object to is the condescending ones that refer to my belief in derogetory manner - i.e. that 'wizard in the sky', etc. The number of atheists that do this is legion, and as was pointed out earlier in the thread, I think a lot of christians have a hard time voting for someone who considers them a bunch of morons for their faith.

 

[Crezth]

What I know about atheists is what I've experienced.

So you admit that it is anecdotal evidence.

 

[MobBoss]

So you admit that it is anecdotal evidence.

Not all of it...there are plenty of utterly vile atheists on the record to prove my point as well. What about Bill Maher for example?

 

[IdiotsOpposite]

Not all of it...there are plenty of utterly vile atheists on the record to prove my point as well. What about Bill Maher for example?

And there are plenty of utterly vile Christians on the record. And there are plenty of utterly vile Muslims on the record. And while I don't know any, I'm sure there are plenty of utterly vile Jews on the record.

All of which only tends to prove that religion isn't a great force for morality in the world.

 

[timtofly]

It's a good thing none of those religions are related to Abraham.

 

[IdiotsOpposite]

It's a good thing none of those religions are related to Abraham.

I could probably find utterly vile Buddhists, Hindus, Shintoists, and Taoists if I wanted too. Or shall we go into the Aztec, Maya, and Incan religions, which I'm sure included some utterly vile people as well?*

*: Yes, there's more. There's probably thousands of religions. I don't feel like listing them all.

 

[timtofly]

I could probably find utterly vile Buddhists, Hindus, Shintoists, and Taoists if I wanted too. Or shall we go into the Aztec, Maya, and Incan religions, which I'm sure included some utterly vile people as well?*

*: Yes, there's more. There's probably thousands of religions. I don't feel like listing them all.

Are you trying to say atheism is religion free or just another branch of seekers?

 

[IdiotsOpposite]

Are you trying to say atheism is religion free or just another branch of seekers?

I'm trying to say that having a religion doesn't automatically grant you morality, and not having a religion doesn't automatically make you immoral.

 

[timtofly]

I'm trying to say that having a religion doesn't automatically grant you morality, and not having a religion doesn't automatically make you immoral.

Good, I am glad we cleared that one up.

 

[Crezth]

Not all of it...there are plenty of utterly vile atheists on the record to prove my point as well. What about Bill Maher for example?

Yes, yes, still evidence from anecdotes though. Come back after you've performed a critical study of atheists that conclusively demonstrates a positive correlation between atheism and vileness.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

It would not matter to me who became pres, even if one claims to be an athiest and shakes his fist at God. Remember the exodus?

Why would an atheist shake his fist at what he doesn't think exists? And what does the exodus have to do with this? Pharaoh wasn't an atheist.

Not all of it...there are plenty of utterly vile atheists on the record to prove my point as well. What about Bill Maher for example?

What about Bill Maher? I've seen him on TV a few times, but I'm not really that familiar with him. Why would you call him a vile atheist, as opposed to merely a vile person?

Are you trying to say atheism is religion free or just another branch of seekers?

Some people are atheists because they sought meaning or enlightenment or something else from religion and didn't find it. The thing is, there are as many kinds of atheism and accompanying reasons as there are atheists. The same is true of believers, isn't it? No two believers have exactly the same experiences, reasons, hopes, or things they're seeking from their faith, do they? People can fall into general categories, but it's not right to then say they're all the same, because they're not.

I'm trying to say that having a religion doesn't automatically grant you morality, and not having a religion doesn't automatically make you immoral.

This is part of it - a HUGE part. It's as wrong to say an atheist can't be moral because he/she is atheist as it is to say (for example) a black person can't be moral because he/she is black.

 

[JollyRoger]

Not all of it...there are plenty of utterly vile atheists on the record to prove my point as well. What about Bill Maher for example?

I have yet to meet an atheist vile enough to categorically refuse to vote for believers merely because they were believers.

 

[timtofly]

Why would an atheist shake his fist at what he doesn't think exists? And what does the exodus have to do with this? Pharaoh wasn't an atheist.


What about Bill Maher? I've seen him on TV a few times, but I'm not really that familiar with him. Why would you call him a vile atheist, as opposed to merely a vile person?


Some people are atheists because they sought meaning or enlightenment or something else from religion and didn't find it. The thing is, there are as many kinds of atheism and accompanying reasons as there are atheists. The same is true of believers, isn't it? No two believers have exactly the same experiences, reasons, hopes, or things they're seeking from their faith, do they? People can fall into general categories, but it's not right to then say they're all the same, because they're not.


This is part of it - a HUGE part. It's as wrong to say an atheist can't be moral because he/she is atheist as it is to say (for example) a black person can't be moral because he/she is black.

Shaking one's fist at a so-called ideology would be worse case scenario. I said that I would even accept a worse case scenario. Other atheist may question the guys mental state though.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Not all of it...there are plenty of utterly vile atheists on the record to prove my point as well. What about Bill Maher for example?

So you don't like "utterly vile atheists" who react to "utterly vile Christians" by responding in kind? What sort of double standard is that?

Doesn't it also mean that those who vilify Bill Maher and others aren't "really Christians" for not forgiving them?

 

[JollyRoger]

Calling one of God's creations vile doesn't seem like a good way to make the cut for the eternal harp team.

 

[holy king]

sometimes i feel like mobboss and cutlass are beign paid for posting in favour of their respective political parties.

 

[IdiotsOpposite]

sometimes i feel like mobboss and cutlass are beign paid for posting in favour of their respective political parties.

I find it ironic that MobBoss advertises himself as a "common sense" guy while simultaneously arguing that all atheists are inherently immoral simply because they don't believe in God. As a Christian myself, it shames me to think that when people think of Christianity, they think of people like MobBoss, who can't seem to imagine that someone can be a good person without being a religious person.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

sometimes i feel like mobboss and cutlass are beign paid for posting in favour of their respective political parties.

If they were (and I sincerely doubt that such a speculation is true), they wouldn't be posting on a game site. You should see the paid shills on sites like Care2. Some are easy to spot, since they repeat the same basic stuff over and over. Others say extremely vile things, like in the case of objecting to a 10-year-old rape victim being allowed an abortion: "Hey, it ain't gonna kill her!" (to have the baby). And this, from a female member! Mind you, this individual says enough misogynistic garbage that I'm starting to wonder if she actually is female, or is merely in great need of psychiatric help. None of us saner people are actually sure what the real case is; all we know is that she's a vile person who claims to be Christian and wholeheartedly supports Romney. And no, it isn't possible to report these people for trolling. The staff there can't even keep up with the commercial spam.

 

[Cutlass]

sometimes i feel like mobboss and cutlass are beign paid for posting in favour of their respective political parties.

The difference being that I criticize the Democrats frequently. Mobby does not return the favor with the GOPers.

 

[Berzerker]

I find the term 'moral atheists' rather oxymoronic...

Dont mean to pile on, but I'm more impressed by people who do good without any belief in a stick and carrot

'The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing people he didnt exist.....' The point being, his existence doesnt require your belief. As to doing his work...you try to convince people God doesnt exist, right? Well, there ya go...

The Devil wants to convince people the Devil and God dont exist? Tempting the founder(s) of religions aint exactly avoiding detection