They should have asked before making promises.

And maybe it's time for some constitutional changes. Most Canadians want electoral reform.

The provincial NDPs ran a referendum here for electoral reform and it bombed. You may be overestimating the support for it from the typical voter. Which wouldn't be your fault; the media likes to pretend it's wildly popular, but it isn't. Most of the "support" is just transient rage from a voter base that feels disenfranchised because they lost the previous election and they think electoral reform translates to "we will win instead." (e.g., less than 30% support from Conservatives turned into 70% support after the Liberals won.)
 
Most voters do not understand what "electoral reform" would really entail or even what "first past the post" means.

I would bet most conservative voters would be against such reforms, since it would disadvantage their party.. Liberal voters, maybe similar sentiment.. but it's tough to say. I do remember the Liberals making electoral reform as a major promise ahead of the last election - and figured that they wouldn't have made it such a major talking point if it wasn't popular, which by just looking at the response to their promise seemed accurate at the time.
 
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Most voters do not understand what "electoral reform" would really entail or even what "first past the post" means.

I would bet most conservative voters would be against such reforms, since it would disadvantage their party.. Liberal voters, maybe similar sentiment.. but it's tough to say. I do remember the Liberals making electoral reform as a major promise ahead of the last election - and figured that they wouldn't have made it such a major talking point if it wasn't popular, which by just looking at the response to their promise seemed accurate at the time.

Here the right wins around 50% of the time under proportional voting. Thinks it 5-4 to the left but the rights numbers are kinda off as they brought it end of second term which they barely won. You don't get a 4th term generally.

Outside of USA the left would still lose a lot under proportional.
 
In terms of actual governance, the electoral reform thing strikes me as a red herring; are countries with more parties in their parliaments better-governed? Are constituents in those systems more satisfied by their representatives? I’m not discounting it entirely, but I am skeptical.
 
In terms of actual governance, the electoral reform thing strikes me as a red herring; are countries with more parties in their parliaments better-governed? Are constituents in those systems more satisfied by their representatives? I’m not discounting it entirely, but I am skeptical.

The problem is that up and coming (?) parties like the Green party here in Canada have started to now get about 5-10% of the vote every election. That's a decent chunk of the population, it equals to 2-4 million Canadians voting for their party. Yet they usually only end up winning 1 seat (once they got 2 IIRC).. So.. you get millions of Canadians disillusioned with the system, since they do not really see any representation in parliament (cause what's 1 seat really, it's symbolic more than anything)

So.. it's moreso about proper representation rather than necessarily better governance. It would also force the other parties to better listen to their constituents, you'd think, since each vote would actually then matter (these days a single vote might or might not matter, depending on your riding)
 
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So it's a 6 horse FPTP race, eh?

If Canada had preferential voting, I wonder how those votes would go on a 2 party preferred basis? Not sure whethr NDC, PPC or Bloc would support conservatives, but I presume Greens would support the Liberals?
The NDP has traditionally been the party that, in a minority government, been able to persuade the party in power to support a few of the NDP causes. The reason?

Because despite Harper stating that elections would happen every four years, x number of days after Thanksgiving (2nd Monday in October), it is still possible for a new election to happen at any time. Trudeau's mandate from the 2019 election still had over 2 years to run before he would have had to call an election. He did this because he's gambling that he'll get enough seats for a majority government plus a comfortable enough margin that he can tell his opponents where to go and what to do when they get there. There have been scandals over shady shenanigans involving charities, there are other ethics - related stuff going on, and of course he just can't win no matter what he says or does regarding the pandemic. It didn't help that his own wife brought Covid back to Canada from the UK, when she, Margaret, and her daughter, Ella-Grace, attended an international women's event. Sophie had to isolate and the rest of the family did as well. Justin started working from their home at Rideau Cottage, rather than in the House, and the Reformacons accused him of "hiding." Well, he was doing the responsible thing, but you can't convince his opponents of that.

The advantage the NDP has in a minority government situation is to simply tell the Prime Minister that if he/his party do not support some particular bill or policy the NDP want passed, or if they do something the NDP doesn't support, the NDP will vote against the next budget or other money bill. If a money bill fails to pass, it's a vote of non-confidence in the government, the government falls, and an election is triggered. This can happen no matter how far into the mandate the PM is. Some governments have lasted less than a year, as happened in 1979 when Joe Clark's Progressive Conservative government fell. The Liberals were leaderless at the time, Pierre Trudeau having stepped down after losing to Clark, and they hadn't had time for a leadership convention yet. So the Liberals asked Pierre to come back, he hemmed, hawed, thought it over, and decided okay, but he had his own agenda he wanted to pursue - and that was repatriating the Constitution from Britain and creating the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

The Liberals won the next election, and governed until 1984 (Trudeau had stepped down again, giving his now-famous "long walk in the snow" speech; that phrase has now entered the Canadian lexicon for when a leader should quit) and the Liberal PM at that time was John Turner; his time in office was so short that people have a tendency to forget it even happened. Lyin' Brian won the election in 1984, with a huge majority that meant he could do whatever he wanted. Even if all the opposition parties got together to oppose him (ie. vote down the budget), it was mathematically impossible to beat him.

This is the danger of huge majorities. If there's no way the government side can be beaten, they can do immense damage.

As for the idea that there are 6 parties in this race for forming the government, that's not ever going to happen.

First of all, the Bloc Quebecois is a regional separatist party that only runs candidates in Quebec. It is mathematically impossible for the BQ to form the government unless a bizarrely high number of other candidates run as independents and can't form an official party (there's a minimum number of seats required, and the BQ hasn't always met that minimum).

Second of all, Maxime Bernier is delusional. His party will go nowhere.

Third of all, it seems that the only time the Greens ever get anywhere is when Elizabeth May is the leader. One of her political fatal flaws is that she possesses a sense of ethics. Back in 2015, people were desperate to get rid of Harper, so the ABC movement came about: Anybody But Conservatives. The idea was to vote strategically - vote for the non-Reformacon candidate in your riding that has the best chance of winning, no matter if it's a party you wouldn't normally support. And Elizabeth May understood that in certain ridings, this would only result in splitting the left-wing vote so she tried to persuade the Liberals and NDP to not run candidates in ridings where the Green candidate would have the best chance of defeating the Conservative candidate and she would reciprocate.

The Liberals stuck their collective noses in the air and said no. I think there might have been one or two ridings where the NDP accepted her proposal; I don't remember.

When the dust settled on election night and Trudeau won, there were people who thought Justin should extend an olive branch to Elizabeth May and invite her to join his cabinet, as Minister of Science. This went out on social media and was a popular idea for a few days, and both Trudeau and May were diplomatically gracious about saying no. May thanked the people for their confidence in her, but said that no cabinet position had been offered (it's actually not against the rules to do this, just extremely unusual), and if it were, she would have to decline as it would mean having to support some Liberal positions on various issues that did not agree with the Green Party's positions on them.

In general, I would expect the Greens to support the Liberals.
 
So it's a 6 horse FPTP race, eh?

If Canada had preferential voting, I wonder how those votes would go on a 2 party preferred basis? Not sure whethr NDC, PPC or Bloc would support conservatives, but I presume Greens would support the Liberals?
Preferential/proportional/runoff voting would be devastating for the right wing in Canada. As is, the only reason the Conservatives do so well is because the left vote is split between three different parties. BQ is essentially of a different category entirely from the other parties but would align right. PPC is currently a nobody and meaningless.

The NDP and Liberals are not good at working together, though.
 
It's a bit of a myth about proportional being a disaster for the right. They win plenty in other countries.
 
Preferential/proportional/runoff voting would be devastating for the right wing in Canada. As is, the only reason the Conservatives do so well is because the left vote is split between three different parties. BQ is essentially of a different category entirely from the other parties but would align right. PPC is currently a nobody and meaningless.

The NDP and Liberals are not good at working together, though.

BQ is usually considered a centre-left party, though to non-Quebecois that seems really odd, because they focus on Sovereignty. But decentralized power isn't just for libertarians, it has appeal to many on the left as well.

Proportional voting would mean basically no more majority governments, at least not for a while. Given how I feel about the only 2 parties that have managed federal majorities so far I'm ok with that.
 
The NDP has traditionally been the party that, in a minority government, been able to persuade the party in power to support a few of the NDP causes. The reason?

Because despite Harper stating that elections would happen every four years, x number of days after Thanksgiving (2nd Monday in October), it is still possible for a new election to happen at any time. Trudeau's mandate from the 2019 election still had over 2 years to run before he would have had to call an election. He did this because he's gambling that he'll get enough seats for a majority government plus a comfortable enough margin that he can tell his opponents where to go and what to do when they get there. There have been scandals over shady shenanigans involving charities, there are other ethics - related stuff going on, and of course he just can't win no matter what he says or does regarding the pandemic. It didn't help that his own wife brought Covid back to Canada from the UK, when she, Margaret, and her daughter, Ella-Grace, attended an international women's event. Sophie had to isolate and the rest of the family did as well. Justin started working from their home at Rideau Cottage, rather than in the House, and the Reformacons accused him of "hiding." Well, he was doing the responsible thing, but you can't convince his opponents of that.

The advantage the NDP has in a minority government situation is to simply tell the Prime Minister that if he/his party do not support some particular bill or policy the NDP want passed, or if they do something the NDP doesn't support, the NDP will vote against the next budget or other money bill. If a money bill fails to pass, it's a vote of non-confidence in the government, the government falls, and an election is triggered. This can happen no matter how far into the mandate the PM is. Some governments have lasted less than a year, as happened in 1979 when Joe Clark's Progressive Conservative government fell. The Liberals were leaderless at the time, Pierre Trudeau having stepped down after losing to Clark, and they hadn't had time for a leadership convention yet. So the Liberals asked Pierre to come back, he hemmed, hawed, thought it over, and decided okay, but he had his own agenda he wanted to pursue - and that was repatriating the Constitution from Britain and creating the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

The Liberals won the next election, and governed until 1984 (Trudeau had stepped down again, giving his now-famous "long walk in the snow" speech; that phrase has now entered the Canadian lexicon for when a leader should quit) and the Liberal PM at that time was John Turner; his time in office was so short that people have a tendency to forget it even happened. Lyin' Brian won the election in 1984, with a huge majority that meant he could do whatever he wanted. Even if all the opposition parties got together to oppose him (ie. vote down the budget), it was mathematically impossible to beat him.

This is the danger of huge majorities. If there's no way the government side can be beaten, they can do immense damage.

As for the idea that there are 6 parties in this race for forming the government, that's not ever going to happen.

First of all, the Bloc Quebecois is a regional separatist party that only runs candidates in Quebec. It is mathematically impossible for the BQ to form the government unless a bizarrely high number of other candidates run as independents and can't form an official party (there's a minimum number of seats required, and the BQ hasn't always met that minimum).

Second of all, Maxime Bernier is delusional. His party will go nowhere.

Third of all, it seems that the only time the Greens ever get anywhere is when Elizabeth May is the leader. One of her political fatal flaws is that she possesses a sense of ethics. Back in 2015, people were desperate to get rid of Harper, so the ABC movement came about: Anybody But Conservatives. The idea was to vote strategically - vote for the non-Reformacon candidate in your riding that has the best chance of winning, no matter if it's a party you wouldn't normally support. And Elizabeth May understood that in certain ridings, this would only result in splitting the left-wing vote so she tried to persuade the Liberals and NDP to not run candidates in ridings where the Green candidate would have the best chance of defeating the Conservative candidate and she would reciprocate.

The Liberals stuck their collective noses in the air and said no. I think there might have been one or two ridings where the NDP accepted her proposal; I don't remember.

When the dust settled on election night and Trudeau won, there were people who thought Justin should extend an olive branch to Elizabeth May and invite her to join his cabinet, as Minister of Science. This went out on social media and was a popular idea for a few days, and both Trudeau and May were diplomatically gracious about saying no. May thanked the people for their confidence in her, but said that no cabinet position had been offered (it's actually not against the rules to do this, just extremely unusual), and if it were, she would have to decline as it would mean having to support some Liberal positions on various issues that did not agree with the Green Party's positions on them.

In general, I would expect the Greens to support the Liberals.

Canadian politics sure is lively indeed. Thanks for the details. :)

I guess if leaders do call an election early, they apologise in advance? :p:D
 
I've always voted liberal in Federal elections and mostly in Provincial as well, although a couple times I voted NDP. I like the current NDP platform item of taxing foreign real estate speculators... they are driving up prices like crazy in our big cities so a 20% tax would be fair I feel, especially when most don't even reside in these properties. The Liberals often adopt NDP policies as their own after elections so I hope this will be one of those policies.
 
Preferential/proportional/runoff voting would be devastating for the right wing in Canada. As is, the only reason the Conservatives do so well is because the left vote is split between three different parties. BQ is essentially of a different category entirely from the other parties but would align right. PPC is currently a nobody and meaningless.

The NDP and Liberals are not good at working together, though.

BQ would align left on anything that's not immigration or decentralization, and even their approach to decentralization isn't "a small federal government should not be taxing us", it's "provinces should run big social program but and the big federal government should help fund those, no strings attached".

On everything else the Bloc is pro-welfare spending, pro-abortion, pro-lgbt, pro-environment, anti-oil industry, anti-guns, etc.

They may vote with a Conservative government because the Conservatives have offered them something they want in return, or because the Bloc does not want an election right now (which is true of all parties), but by and large they're nowhere near right-aligned.
 
He will probably be apologizing to his party if the election doesn't go as planned, although the decision to do so was probably made with the input of other party members.

If the Liberals don't win an outright majority, Trudeau needs to step down.
 
Eh from what I've read Canadian speculators/investors are to blame for our high house prices to a much larger degree than foreign investors. Just tax them all equally whether they are Canadian or not
Well, there are far more Canadian investors buying real estate in Canada, for obvious reasons, so yes they would have more influence on price movements but from what I've read the foreign investors are far more likely, as a percentage, to be using them purely for investments. Québec already has something like this in their Welcome Tax.
 
Canadian politics sure is lively indeed. Thanks for the details. :)
I've been a federal political junkie since before I was old enough to vote. :D I'm actually old enough to understand all the Canadian political in-jokes in Wayne & Shuster's Star Trek parody ("Star Schtick"); they would fly right over the heads of most people under 50 these days.

Back when Brian Mulroney was PM, Question Period was indeed quite lively. It was on during noon hour in this time zone, and my grandmother and I never missed it.

Fast-forward to pre-2015, when Justin Trudeau was just a backbench MP; he did his own brand of troublemaking a few times (was forced to apologize, of course, but people remember).

I guess if leaders do call an election early, they apologise in advance? :p:D
Justin has done a lot of apologizing over the years, and some of it may even have been sincere. He's certainly more sincere at apologizing than the Reformacons ever were. But he keeps making stupid mistakes, and some of his apologies are more like "I'm sorry I/we got caught" or combines them with excuses. In short, apologies like any other party's apologies - essentially meaningless.

He owes the entire country an apology for this election. It wasn't needed, and is going to cost $$$$$$$ for no good reason.

He will probably be apologizing to his party if the election doesn't go as planned, although the decision to do so was probably made with the input of other party members.
I expect there are cliques forming, if they haven't already, months ago, to oust him if this election doesn't result in a comfortable majority. If he loses, he will almost certainly lose his next leadership review, if he doesn't step down on election night (it's not uncommon for party leaders to do this when they end up with significant loss of seats).

The only thing that might save him is if the backroom PTB don't have any credible replacements for him - ie. someone who can win an election.

I've always voted liberal in Federal elections and mostly in Provincial as well, although a couple times I voted NDP. I like the current NDP platform item of taxing foreign real estate speculators... they are driving up prices like crazy in our big cities so a 20% tax would be fair I feel, especially when most don't even reside in these properties. The Liberals often adopt NDP policies as their own after elections so I hope this will be one of those policies.
Agreed. It's criminal, to have those huge houses sitting empty after the prices have been driven up to the point that a literal falling-down dump is listed at $1 million and it's nearly impossible for Canadians to buy a house in their own country in those cities (awkwardly worded, but I guess everyone knows what I mean).

I remember reading a news article a few years ago after the first attempt at taxing foreign ownership in BC... this university student from China was wailing and whining that she "couldn't afford to buy a house to live in" while she attended university.

Hello! Since when does one student need an entire house? Especially when she's probably not going to stick around after her graduation? The only reason I lived in a house while attending college is because I never left Red Deer. I went to the local college, lived at home to save $$$$$, and to help take care of my grandparents as they were in their 70s and 80s by that time. If I'd gone on to U of A or U of C (Edmonton or Calgary), I expect I'd have lived in an apartment or dorm.

BQ would align left on anything that's not immigration or decentralization, and even their approach to decentralization isn't "a small federal government should not be taxing us", it's "provinces should run big social program but and the big federal government should help fund those, no strings attached".

On everything else the Bloc is pro-welfare spending, pro-abortion, pro-lgbt, pro-environment, anti-oil industry, anti-guns, etc.

They may vote with a Conservative government because the Conservatives have offered them something they want in return, or because the Bloc does not want an election right now (which is true of all parties), but by and large they're nowhere near right-aligned.
Do they use that exact phrase - "pro-abortion"? That doesn't carry quite the same meaning as "pro-choice."

(nice to see you back!)
 
BQ would align left on anything that's not immigration or decentralization, and even their approach to decentralization isn't "a small federal government should not be taxing us", it's "provinces should run big social program but and the big federal government should help fund those, no strings attached".

On everything else the Bloc is pro-welfare spending, pro-abortion, pro-lgbt, pro-environment, anti-oil industry, anti-guns, etc.

They may vote with a Conservative government because the Conservatives have offered them something they want in return, or because the Bloc does not want an election right now (which is true of all parties), but by and large they're nowhere near right-aligned.
In a vacuum I recognize and acknowledge that (indeed, me saying they align right is flat-out wrong). My gut sense is that they'd be more inclined to side with the Cons federally than with the Liberals or NDP. I think they could more easily get concessions from the Conservatives than from the left parties, especially if they play on the religious angle.
 
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