Choose life

[Traitorfish]

Link to video.

Better song.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Wow. Tens of thousands of like-minded people. That's really impressive.

I wonder if it dawned on them to move to many overwhelmingly Catholic countries if they felt so strongly about interfering in others' lives.

Mexico court orders release of woman jailed for abortion

MEXICO CITY (AFP) - Mexico's Supreme Court ordered the release on Wednesday of a woman who served seven years in jail for aborting a child illegally, saying she did not receive due process.

The high court said Ms Adriana Manzanares, an indigenous Tlapaneca who does not speak Spanish, was freed after conviction "due to several violations of due process, including the lack of an interpreter who spoke her language and understood her culture and worldview".

The attorney who helped secure her release was not immediately available for comment.

Local media reported that Ms Manzanares had been sentenced to 22 years in prison in 2006 after authorities said she illegally aborted her fetus late in her pregnancy.

Mexico’s Abortion Wars, American-Style

When Mexico City’s law changed in 2007, allowing elective abortions in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy, it was a substantial victory for reproductive rights advocates in a country, and a region, where the Catholic Church dominates daily life. Across Latin America, access to legal abortion is a rarity, and in 2007, all eyes turned to Mexico City to see how the experiment would play out—and whether it could be replicated. To date, only Uruguay has followed Mexico City in liberalizing its abortion law, and this June, the world watched as El Salvador denied a lifesaving abortion to a woman known as Beatriz for five months before finally allowing a c-section delivery for the nonviable fetus.

After decriminalization, however, a fierce backlash unfurled across Mexico. In the first three years, half of the country’s 31 provinces passed new constitutional amendments enshrining abortion bans—two of which were just upheld by Mexico’s Supreme Court this May. As a result of the amendments passed after 2007 in 18 Mexican states, women in the provinces are increasingly being prosecuted for “attempted abortion,” often reported by hospital staff when they seek help after self-abortions, unsupervised use of the medical abortion drug misoprostol, or unsafe back-alley terminations.

Regina Tames, a lawyer and executive director of the reproductive rights advocacy group GIRE (Grupo de Información en Reproducción Elegida), worked with several of the dozens of women being prosecuted for attempted abortion in 2012. If convicted, some of these women could face up to six years in jail, while others would be sentenced to fines or community service. Many were already condemned in their communities after newspapers printed their pictures and identified them as criminals and baby killers.

Katia’s experience would be nothing out of the ordinary in heartland America, where CPCs have been a fixture since the 1960s. What’s new is that this model has been exported to Mexico, where anti-abortion groups have established more than 40 CPCs in recent years.

Frequently posing as medical facilities, and often located right next door to actual abortion clinics, CPCs function by attracting women with free pregnancy tests and implied offers of abortion services, only to ambush them with graphic videos, intensive anti-abortion coercion, and strategic misinformation. (Some in the United States have even been sanctioned for fraud.) Now, thanks to the expanding reach of American evangelical and Catholic anti-abortion activists, CPCs are becoming important players in the abortion debates overseas, in countries as varied as Ethiopia, Israel, Serbia, and South Africa. Mexico is just one of the 47 nations where Heartbeat International, an anti-abortion network based in Ohio, now has partner centers. Heartbeat International, which represents more than 1,000 similar centers in the United States and 1,800 groups worldwide, has partnered with a Spanish-language website to track and promote Mexican CPCs as well. In fact, it was Heartbeat International’s website that had listed the Mexico City CPC that Katia—who was actually my translator—visited.

Women who go with the CAM volunteers are likely to experience the same protocol that has been extensively documented in the United States. They are shown graphic videos about how aborted fetuses cry for their mothers. They are given a letter to read “from a fetus,” forgiving its mother for aborting. They are invited to stay with the CAM’s partner maternity home.

 

[timtofly]

No, my point is that it is your right to choose to have a surgery performed on you and your choice determines whether I live or I die. Do you think I should be able to take your kidney by force if I need it?

If it was my choice, I would choose to save your life, even if it meant loosing mine.

I'm saying it's a ridiculous hypothetical question.

What is ridiculous about asking one's opinion on one's ability to choose life? We allow the mother to choose life. Is her choice just as ridiculous? That a mother takes away the choice has little to do with it. This thread is not about the choice to end life is it? It is about choosing life. Perhaps Darkflight hates life and if given the choice would have been aborted? It was just a simple question only looking for a simple answer. I am just seeing how far he is willing to argue his own existence. He seems dead set on not allowing other's their existence. If it is just about the money, then I don't care to be in the debate either.

In an ideal world, abortion would be safe, legal, and very rare.

The funny thing about the whole notion of "choosing life" is that no one on the pro choice side of the debate wants to take away that right.

Since when does choosing life remove someone's right to keep theirs? There are some difficult choices that have to made sometimes. That those times are rare, is a blessing.

 

[Dralix]

Since when does choosing life remove someone's right to keep theirs?

I said nothing of the kind.

There are some difficult choices that have to made sometimes. That those times are rare, is a blessing.

Agreed. I don't envy anyone in a position where they have to make that choice. I do support their right to make it.

 

[JollyRoger]

Link to video.

Link to video.

 

[Zelig]

I would choose my life over the combined lives of every other human on the planet.

 

[JollyRoger]

The theme of this years march was Adoption:The Noble Decision

Choose WLife:

My arguement against Same Sex Adoption is from Biology. Why shold we allow a group of people who cannot and it is impossible for them to produce children? It is a biological fact that Homosexual couples together are incapable of producing children together. It is only by hetrosexual sex that one can produce children. By my definition, that would disallow single people to adopt because you cannot produce children by yourself. So according to biology it should only be allowed that those who are capable of producing children the biological method.

 

[Gigaz]

If it was my choice, I would choose to save your life, even if it meant loosing mine.

That's totally not the topic here. Do you think that if someone needs a kidney, the goverment should take one from a fitting donator, by force, if necessary?

 

[Darkflight]

Perhaps Darkflight hates life and if given the choice would have been aborted? It was just a simple question only looking for a simple answer. I am just seeing how far he is willing to argue his own existence. He seems dead set on not allowing other's their existence. If it is just about the money, then I don't care to be in the debate either.

See, it's this kind of stuff that makes this entire discussion worthless. I have never had an abortion, and I have never in any way encouraged/forced/suggested or even talked to anyone about having an abortion. The only times I have talked about abortion are in discussions where abortion is the topic such as this.

You are simply attacking my opinions and personality without presenting any arguement about abortion at all. The question is not how I or anyone else feels about abortion, the question is is there any rational reason why abortion shouldn't be available to those who choose to take that option.

The Choose Life movement wants young women to carry their baby until birth and then adopt it away, which sounds really great but has its own set of problems. The problem with having children isn't always the upbringing. A pregnancy can be problematic for school and work. There is risks of the mother having problems with seperating from the child and either ending up having psychological problems if she does give the child away or she might end up keeping it in situations where it is not a good idea for a women to have a child. What if the women doesn't have health insurance? And so on.

Link to video.

Better song.

Thanks. I used to love that song but I had totally forgotten about it.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Link to video.

As an unmarried homosexual who is literally hated by many fundamentalist Christians, perhaps George Michael wasn't referring to sex in the Biblical sense.

What an unusual spokesperson for the anti-abortionists...

 

[JollyRoger]

Christians send more mixed messages than a gal sporting a purity ring and a miniskirt.

Choose life? Isn't Jesus so great because he chose death?

 

[useless]

It's ironic C_H uses the word choose, given that he wants to rob women of that very right to do what they want with their bodies.

 

[Traitorfish]

"Obey me or die" is technically a choice.

 

[timtofly]

That's totally not the topic here. Do you think that if someone needs a kidney, the goverment should take one from a fitting donator, by force, if necessary?

The government's involvement especially forcing people to give up something is not either is it?

See, it's this kind of stuff that makes this entire discussion worthless. I have never had an abortion, and I have never in any way encouraged/forced/suggested or even talked to anyone about having an abortion. The only times I have talked about abortion are in discussions where abortion is the topic such as this.

You are simply attacking my opinions and personality without presenting any arguement about abortion at all. The question is not how I or anyone else feels about abortion, the question is is there any rational reason why abortion shouldn't be available to those who choose to take that option.

The Choose Life movement wants young women to carry their baby until birth and then adopt it away, which sounds really great but has its own set of problems. The problem with having children isn't always the upbringing. A pregnancy can be problematic for school and work. There is risks of the mother having problems with seperating from the child and either ending up having psychological problems if she does give the child away or she might end up keeping it in situations where it is not a good idea for a women to have a child. What if the women doesn't have health insurance? And so on.

See this is what I did not want to discuss either. I was just asking about your existence and how you felt about it. If you have no comment, I respect that and I have no more questions. It seems to me that the choose life movement wants people to choose life and offers them help. I do not see any one forcing any body else to do what they do not want to do. Yet it seems that is where the discussion heads every single time. And other posters come in and make ridiculous yet so-called witty comments and there is no productive discussion at all. So it seems there is only one choice and one course of action, so people may as well be happy while they at least think they have a choice in the matter.

 

[Smellincoffee]

I used to think I was pro-choice, though not so after the first month. Once brain development begins, that organism is human and you cannot kill humans for convenience's sake. That's my conviction. Then I realized most people don't even realize they're pregnant until long after my line in the sand, so I suppose I'm anti-choice. I don't think anyone should have the right to choose, to weigh a life in the balance against anything, and decide there's something more important than a human life. That attitude already prevails in the world today: we see it when people are forced to spend their entire day doing the same motion over and over again, or when they're fired because the plant is getting more automated or because labor's cheaper overseas -- or their house gets blown up because some politician has decide that an interstate spur would be useful. People are constantly being run over by inhuman systems and machines -- and there's probably no more poignant example of that than casual abortion.

 

[KmDubya]

How many choices does one get?

A woman makes at least three prior to becoming pregnant.
#1 - She chooses to have sex.
#2 - She chooses not to use birth control
#3 - She chooses not to make the man wear a condom
#4 - She chooses to have unprotected sex during her fertility cycle.

Ignoring all of the above choices that she has already made why does she also get another choice to kill the child? Biologically speaking life begins at conception, anything else is just made up legal speak. Pro-death people say up to three months after conception sure kill the child, why not 9 months? Why not 18 years? If the deciding factor is when life can survive on its own why not 26 years old when you can no longer be on your parent's insurance?

The most dangerous place for a black child to be in America is inside their mother's womb. Why are most abortion clinics in poor neighborhoods? The founder of Planned Parenthood was Margaret Sanger, an avowed eugenicist whose stated goals were to reduce the population of minorities in America. Tens of millions of black babies have been killed since abortion was legalized, which seems to be the intended goal of the progressives pro-abortion movement. Obama is lucky that he was conceived prior to 1973, he might have been deemed to be inconvenient and disposed of.

 

[Gigaz]

That's totally not the topic here. Do you think that if someone needs a kidney, the goverment should take one from a fitting donator, by force, if necessary?

The government's involvement especially forcing people to give up something is not either is it?

I see, your dogded the question three times. Whatever.

 

[Tahuti]

Link to video.

Better song.

This is actually what I thought about when I saw the title.

 

[NovaKart]

As an unmarried homosexual who is literally hated by many fundamentalist Christians, perhaps George Michael wasn't referring to sex in the Biblical sense.

What an unusual spokesperson for the anti-abortionists...

The song was kind of controversial and he had to keep stressing monogamy in the video, as if some guy would be singing this about his wife.

 

[timtofly]

I see, your dogded the question three times. Whatever.

I would not give the government such power. If my government had such power there is little I could do about it. The people either gave that power away and I am in the minority, or it does not have it.

I do not agree with your premise that a government taking something without my consent has anything to do with a fetus taking something from the mother without her consent. Most people cannot choose their government, and most mothers (in a similar vein (if that is such a thing as you seem to note)) cannot choose giving birth to this new government inside of her, but that is where the similarities end. Are you saying that people can abort and create a new government every few days? Do you live in a country that changes governments every nine months or every time they have sex? A mother with an unwanted government in side her body, has already broken several "laws" avoiding such a government inside of her. I realize that there may be some oppressive governments, but it is not easy aborting such governments and creating new ones every few weeks, or months, or even eight months.

I clearly stated that I was ok with the government taking something from me, if it would save a life. Most educated mothers would allow the government inside of her to take something that would save that government's life. Your point just being how stupid such people like me and those who choose life seem to look.