Christian converts on trial in Turkey

[Bugfatty300]

Surely you arent trying to claim that the UK and Turkey are on a par with regards to this issue?

People who disagree with the Turkish government and express beliefs contrary to the norm are persecuted. Our system is not quite that bad.
As much as I dislike racists and dispute their claims they are entitled to have their opinions.

No. I'm saying free-speech should be unlimited in the USA, Turkey, UK ect. (outside of threats and other worded crimes like blackmail and extortion). Be it holocaust denial, racial remarks, communists, pinko, religious or whatever.

 

[Bugfatty300]

They are not persecuted for being Christians, they are charged for degrading.
Islam.
Insulting a major religious group means trouble in any country.

Maybe. But it shouldn't end in legal action.

Turkey really isn't a free society if people can be tried for such nonsense.

 

[Peri]

They are not persecuted for being Christians, they are charged for degrading.
Islam.
Insulting a major religious group means trouble in any country.

The law they are being charged with breaking is used to prosecute anyone who dissents with the state. It was used in the Armenian Genocide issue wasnt it?

 

[Peri]

No. I'm saying free-speech should be unlimited in the USA, Turkey, UK ect. (outside of threats and other worded crimes like blackmail and extortion). Be it holocaust denial, racial remarks, communists, pinko, religious or whatever.

I was posting in response to Prince of Leigh.
Yes I agree with you.

 

[PrinceOfLeigh]

Surely you arent trying to claim that the UK and Turkey are on a par with regards to this issue?

No, I was just asking if you thought that Legislation which prohibits free speech is just as abhorant when it is targeted at people with different agendas.

People who disagree with the Turkish government and express beliefs contrary to the norm are persecuted. Our system is not quite that bad.
As much as I dislike racists and dispute their claims they are entitled to have their opinions.

I would tend to agree. Whilst I see the logic in banning the expression of words which lead to inciting hatred of any kind, I think it's one of the things that unfortunately comes with freedom. I don't believe you change people's ideals by merely banning them.

Im not sure that I have answered your post properly.

Course you did

 

[warpus]

'Insulting Turkishness' should not be a crime in Turkey if they want to join the EU, IMO.

 

[Peri]

I don't believe you change people's ideals by merely
banning them.

Nor do I. If you disagree with someone's ideas you defeat them with good argument and show them to be full of hot air. If you try and suppress their views ultimately you will fail.

Course you did

Thanks.

 

[Yoda Power]

That is why I don't think it a good idea to include Turkey in the EU.

This is exactly the reason we can't stop negotiations between Turkey and EU. Only by giving them the possibility of entering the EU can we make them improve themselves.

Example: The Kurds would have an even harder life in Turkey if the EU hadn't made the country stop atleast some of it's discrimination.

 

[Peri]

This is exactly the reason we can't stop negotiations between Turkey and EU. Only by giving them the possibility of entering the EU can we make them improve themselves.

Example: The Kurds would have an even harder life in Turkey if the EU hadn't made the country stop atleast some of it's discrimination.

But how willing is the Turkish government to meet the criteria?
What progress that is being made does not seem to happening without resistance

 

[Yoda Power]

But how willing is the Turkish government to meet the criteria?
What progress that is being made does not seem to happening without resistance

1) Well so far the Turkish goverment have proved quite willing. Atleast that was the impression I got when I went to Brussels on a study trip with my political science class last September. I'm no expert on the supject, but the (supposed) experts I meet in Brussels said so. And they weren't all of the same political orientation.

2) Does resistance mean we shouldn't try? Does any progress happen without resistance? If there weren't any resistance would progress even be needed?

 

[Peri]

Well I am glad that is the case then.

We should always, always try. I was just whinging .

 

[storealex]

Bugfatty calm down. Simple Words WTH... I only know of one man in Denmark who came on trail for that, and he was inciting people to blow themselves up in busses and trains, and best buddies with the people behind the terror in Madrid...

 

[Yoda Power]

Bugfatty calm down. Simple Words WTH... I only know of one man in Denmark who came on trail for that, and he was inciting people to blow themselves up in busses and trains, and best buddies with the people behind the terror in Madrid...

Who are you talking about?

 

[AL_DA_GREAT]

Am I the only one who thinks everything would just be simplar and better if we all became atheists? Ataturk must be spinning in his grave.

 

[Trajan12]

Inciting religious hatred? What exactly did they do wrong? Turky is a looney place.

Originally Posted by AL_DA_GREAT
Am I the only one who thinks everything would just be simplar and better if we all became atheists? Ataturk must be spinning in his grave.

Am I the only one who thinks everything would be simpler if everyone converted to Cristianity?

 

[Yoda Power]

Am I the only one who thinks everything would just be simplar and better if we all became atheists? Ataturk must be spinning in his grave.

Or if we all became Muslim for that matter .

The real problem is that people should learn to respect each others religions no matter what they are.

 

[Peri]

Am I the only one who thinks everything would just be simplar and better if we all became atheists? Ataturk must be spinning in his grave.

Religion does offer a cohesive morality that you dont find in atheist societies. It is a common bond that crosses borders. It would be good if we were all of one religion.

Edit: But then some people woud want to break away and form their own sects and we would be back to the beginning. People just dont like to conform.

 

[storealex]

Who are you taking about?

Some dude. I don't remember his name.

 

[Trajan12]

Can't the EU take measures against people for stupid laws like the ones in their penal code?

 

[Yoda Power]

Can't the EU take measures against people for stupid laws like the ones in their penal code?

I think the answer is yes. There is a human rights court in EU that can make countries behave. Denmark has been there a couple of times, because of our racist immigration policy.