Christian converts on trial in Turkey

[Katheryn]

I have news for you, not that I ever ever ever expect you to get it. But, you are NOT the spokesperson for all Christians. Now, kindly get over yourself.

WTH is w/ so many of the CFC "Christians" who somehow think that their very fallible, very human, understanding of God/Christ somehow represents all Christians everywhere and like to act as their self-appointed representatives. Its arrogant, its insulting, its rude, its uncouth, its poor form, its narcissistic, its shows a lack of cognition, and, ironically, I find it not Christ-like at all.

But guess what, I only speak for myself. I'd never be so arrogant to think otherwise.

I never said that I speak for all Christians, but I have been involved in the Moral Majority, which is the original political organization that is the LOBBY effort for conservative Christian issues. I know them quite well, they are a cohesive unit in the United States. I may not agree with all they say or do, but I am involved in it, I receive their emails, have gone to churches that press for these issues, namely advocating restrictions on ABORTION, laws favoring TRADITIONAL MARRIAGE, limiting sexually explicit themes on TV, VOUCHERS for school choice, HOME SCHOOLING, and a few other issues.

Fundamentalist Christians favor all the above.

Now, I am sure there are many Christians here that are not FUNDAMENTALISTS, but I am, and know what they believe. They are a group of people who believe alike, hence they are a lobby group.

That doesn't mean that I know what liberal or moderate Christians believe or other sectarians (like Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses) but I am well versed in FUNDAMENTALIST Christianity, and know what I am talking about.

Sorry, but it is just a fact, fundamentalists are a close knit group.

 

[mangxema]

The gay community is only about 5-10% of the population, why do they need so much time invested in their community? It makes no sense.

I'm not quite sure what you mean here... either you're saying:
+5-10% is insignificant, in which case, I say, they deserve the same amount of rights as you or I.
+or, this 5-10% is trying to be more than 5-10% of something, in which case, I don't understand your point. Are you referring to some gay agenda that's overwhelming everything else?

And there is very compelling reason to favor traditional marriage. It is the fabric of any society. Without the traditional family unit, the whole thing goes to pot. This has been the case in every society that has declined. Apathy which is the result of too much prosperity, too much hedonism, not enough good old fashioned family units to work the land, work the economy, childbirth goes down, immigration become rampant, slaves revolt. It is the same ole' same ole'.

Oh no! It's a slippery slope!
Heteros are not going to suddenly turn gay just because homos are tolerated. No matter what benefits the gays get, it will not that change my predilection for redheads and brunettes in bikinis! The heterosexual community will be largely unaffected, aside from actually having to treat gays with some respect for a change.

 

[GenMarshall]

I'm not quite sure what you mean here... either you're saying:
+5-10% is insignificant, in which case, I say, they deserve the same amount of rights as you or I.

The heterosexual community will be largely unaffected, aside from actually having to treat gays with some respect for a change.

Why should I have to respect their immoral lifestyle that I do not approve of whatsoever?! No matter how you turn and twists things around, Christians (and other Abrahamic Religions) and Social Conservatives would still find homosexual sex immoral and unnatural.

 

[puglover]

If you take out the Christian element we have a thread which condemns an American teacher and a thread about courts in Turkey. Which thread do you think will attract more feeling?

Good point. I concede.

 

[mangxema]

Why should I have to respect their immoral lifestyle that I do not approve of whatsoever?! No matter how you turn and twists things around, Christians (and other Abrahamic Religions) and Social Conservatives would still find homosexual sex immoral and unnatural.

Why? Because that's life. There are going to be people that you disagree with. That doesn't mean you get to treat them like crap.

I honestly don't care if you disapprove of homosexuals. Hell, I don't even care if you whole-heartedly despise them. What I do care about is your call for the government to treat a certain group of people differently just because you don't like them. The government is supposed to be fair and unbiased, nondiscriminatory, designed to protect the rights of the minority from the tyranny of the majority.

 

[GenMarshall]

What I do care about is your call for the government to treat a certain group of people differently just because you don't like them.

Sorry, but calling the government to recognize marriage as an institution that is a union between a man and a woman is not treating a certan group of people differently.

The government is supposed to be fair and unbiased, nondiscriminatory, designed to protect the rights of the minority from the tyranny of the majority.

Sorry, but that does not work like that. I believe MobBoss has given you quite enough lectures on this manner. If the people of the US votes that there should be a ban on gay marriage, then the government has to abide by that request.

 

[mangxema]

Sorry, but calling the government to recognize marriage as an institution that is a union between a man and a woman is not treating a certan group of people differently.

Technically, it is by extension since hetero married couples enjoy privileges that gay ones do not... however, I have no desire to force your church to perform a ceremony that it would see as an abomination.

Sorry, but that does not work like that. I believe MobBoss has given you quite enough lectures on this manner. If the people of the US votes that there should be a ban on gay marriage, then the government has to abide by that request.

Well yes, but if it is unconstitutional, it will not stand. And discriminatory laws fall eventually.

 

[Peri]

Why should I have to respect their immoral lifestyle that I do not approve of whatsoever?! No matter how you turn and twists things around, Christians (and other Abrahamic Religions) and Social Conservatives would still find homosexual sex immoral and unnatural.

No one wants to force you to respect homosexuality. However it would show common decency not to troll against homosexuals at every opportunity.

 

[nonconformist]

Sorry, but that does not work like that. I believe MobBoss has given you quite enough lectures on this manner. If the people of the US votes that there should be a ban on gay marriage, then the government has to abide by that request.

Yep, and the laws of Turkey allow them to put people on trial for insulting Islam.

Kthxbye.

 

[GenMarshall]

Yep, and the laws of Turkey allow them to put people on trial for insulting Islam.

Unfortunately, their laws on condemning Muslim converts to Christianity is something that I do not like.

 

[nonconformist]

Unfortunately, their laws on condemning Muslim converts to Christianity is something that I do not like.

Too bad for you.

 

[GenMarshall]

Too bad for you.

Now why is it too bad for me? I feel that Christians should not be oppressed because of their beliefs, especially if they converted from Islam.

 

[nonconformist]

Now why is it too bad for me? I feel that Christians should not be oppressed because of their beliefs, especially if they converted from Islam.

Allow me to quote you with a couple of modifications:

Sorry, but that does not work like that. I believe MobBoss has given you quite enough lectures on this manner. If the people of Turkey vote that there should be a law condemning the insult of Islam, then the government has to abide by that request

 

[Peri]

Now why is it too bad for me? I feel that Christians should not be oppressed because of their beliefs, especially if they converted from Islam.

But you are more than happy to oppress homosexuals and any group you dont like. A most un Christian Christian you are.

 

[Mott1]

But you are more than happy to oppress homosexuals and any group you dont like. A most un Christian Christian you are.

I don't understand, does Civ General support legally indicting people who exercise homosexuallity? Does he believe homosexuals should be tried and imprisoned? I believe he simply said he finds homosexuality immoral according to his beliefs.
Now tell me how that equates to oppressing homosexuals?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I don't understand, does Civ General support legally indicting people who exercise homosexuallity? Does he believe homosexuals should be tried and imprisoned?

Actually yes he does

 

[Peri]

Does he believe homosexuals should be tried and imprisoned?

Yes he does unless of course he has had another change of mind.

 

[Katheryn]

I'm not quite sure what you mean here... either you're saying:
+5-10% is insignificant, in which case, I say, they deserve the same amount of rights as you or I.
+or, this 5-10% is trying to be more than 5-10% of something, in which case, I don't understand your point. Are you referring to some gay agenda that's overwhelming everything else?



Oh no! It's a slippery slope!
Heteros are not going to suddenly turn gay just because homos are tolerated. No matter what benefits the gays get, it will not that change my predilection for redheads and brunettes in bikinis! The heterosexual community will be largely unaffected, aside from actually having to treat gays with some respect for a change.

Actually, Christians would be happy as punch if EVERYONE, not just gays, but those of ALL sexual persuasions were D-I-S-C-R-E-T-E !!!

 

[Peri]

Actually, Christians would be happy as punch if EVERYONE, not just gays, but those of ALL sexual persuasions were D-I-S-C-R-E-T-E !!!

That needs to be put in bold and in a larger font. That message is lost on far too many.

 

[Katheryn]

Why? Because that's life. There are going to be people that you disagree with. That doesn't mean you get to treat them like crap.

I honestly don't care if you disapprove of homosexuals. Hell, I don't even care if you whole-heartedly despise them. What I do care about is your call for the government to treat a certain group of people differently just because you don't like them. The government is supposed to be fair and unbiased, nondiscriminatory, designed to protect the rights of the minority from the tyranny of the majority.

There is a HUGE difference between FAVORING traditional marriage, which has PROVEN to be the stabilizing force of any civilization and actively discriminating against homosexuals.

This is the huge jump in deduction that the 5-10% of the population (ie the gay community) takes that is totally unwarranted!

EXAMPLE: Gays demand that schools teach that homosexual feelings are natural and unchangable.

Christians and traditionals do not want this teaching given to our children. #1it is not true. #2 They have no business CONTRADICTING our religious views. This act is superceding our religion by the state, which is illegal.

If people have a problem with this, then they should give out VOUCHERS so that parents can CHOOSE how their children are taught.

There was a pastor at my (former) church (The Vineyard Newport Beach) back in the '80s, who was a male model at one point in his life. He came to know Christ, he turned from his gay lifestyle, married a girl from church, had four kids, and then died of AIDS a few years later. So it does happen, people do change. It is possible, we have all seen it. Therefore, we do not want our children taught that it is impossible.