Christian facists on the march?

[ComradeDavo]

Somehow this thread reaks of trolls and Christian bashing .

Oh please, you complain everytime an aspect of Christianity is critized.

 

[Katheryn]

That is the biggest, most offensive and ridiculous statement I have ever heard. I thought peope like the guy in the OP were rare, but I see I was wrong. Drawing parallels between Christianity and fascism? I wish I could find that republican...

IT is appalling for a Christian to see this kind of parallel.

It is Christianity that brought the concepts of 'freedom' to the world. To see a group of people, whose foundation of beliefs is 'freedom from rules' to be accused of forcing rules on others.... well it's just appalling.

It is probably this whole accusation (Christian neo-con warmongering, rule enforcing) garbage that is going to see the Christian community walk away from the secular world. I hear about it in the Christian circles a great deal these days. I wonder what will happen then. I hope it's not like what happened in Rome:

Analysis from Edward Gibbon's The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire:

[edit] Gibbon
Edward Gibbon famously placed the blame on a loss of civic virtue among the Roman citizens. They gradually outsourced their duties to defend the Empire to barbarian mercenaries who eventually turned on them. Gibbon considered that Christianity had contributed to this, making the populace less interested in the worldly here-and-now and more willing to wait for the rewards of heaven. "[T]he decline of Rome was the natural and inevitable effect of immoderate greatness. Prosperity ripened the principle of decay; the causes of destruction multiplied with the extent of conquest; and as soon as time or accident had removed the artificial supports, the stupendous fabric yielded to the pressure of its own weight," he wrote.

Gibbon's work is notable for its erratic, but exhaustively documented, notes and research. Interestingly, since he was writing in the eighteenth century, Gibbon also mentioned the climate, while reserving naming it as a cause of the decline, saying "the climate (whatsoever may be its influence) was no longer the same." While judging the loss of civic virtue and the rise of Christianity to be a lethal combination, Gibbon did find other factors possibly contributing in the decline.

When the Chrisitan community walked away from the secular world in Rome, it was lethal. Christian pacifism, unburdened with 'civic virtue' replaced with an other-worldly focus, combined with the prosperity of the day... yes, I can see how this would make the population very vulnerable to outside forces.

I see us heading directly in this direction. Oh well, maybe it will be a good change!

 

[Katheryn]

Oh please, you complain everytime an aspect of Christianity is critized.

But don't criticize Muslims or you will be banned!

 

[AL_DA_GREAT]

Why can't we all be atheists. Religeon seems to create nothing but trouble and hours wasted being bored in church.

 

[Trajan12]

I have no idea what form of Christianity you practice, nor does it matter. As long as you aren't preaching fascism, I'm not going to call you a fascist. And I'll do the same for Muslims. Not because I like what they're doing any more than you do, but because it's just plain inaccurate to call them fascists.

I don't care about the term. I was talking about that guy who called me a fascist and that was it so I don't see what you are getting at.

But you have the right to be offended by a harmless statement from a Republican County Chair somewhere?

There's a double standard here that I'm just not grasping. Help me out.

He actually refered to an entire group of religious people most od whom have nothing to do with fundies.

 

[GenMarshall]

There you go. Youa dmit 'you' are. That means that 'you' have thigns in common with facsists - i.e. suppression of individual rights, putting the state above the individual and so forth.

WOOT I am a big of a Fascist as Mussolini and Hitler! . Sounds kind of contradictory to me since I am against the philosophy of Fascism and Nazism (VERY against it). So by your logic Religions and political parties that restrict individual rights and placing the state above the individual is Fascist, Even if they have fought or are against Fascism in the past? .

 

[ComradeDavo]

But don't criticize Muslims or you will be banned!

I criticize Muslims all the time, but this thread is about Christians.

 

[Katheryn]

Vouchers are government subsdies. If you don't want the government telling you how to run your school, don't take government subsidies.

No it isn't. I pay $1,000 per month in property taxes which go directly to the schools. It is not government subsidies. I don't know if you live in the US, but here we fought a Revolutionary War over "no taxation, no representation!" That stands for vouchers. Then, they can do whatever they want in the schools.

 

[Katheryn]

I criticize Muslims all the time, but this thread is about Christians.

I did get banned for it. For a week.

 

[ComradeDavo]

WOOT I am a big of a Fascist as Mussolini and Hitler! . Sounds kind of contradictory to me since I am against the philosophy of Fascism and Nazism (VERY against it). So by your logic Religions and political parties that restrict individual rights and placing the state above the individual is Fascist? .

Oh man, stop picking and choosing the parts of my post that you want to read. 'Things in common' is not the same as saying 'you are the same'.

 

[Trajan12]

There you go. Youa dmit 'you' are. That means that 'you' have thigns in common with facsists - i.e. suppression of individual rights, putting the state above the individual and so forth. Pretty simple, huh?

Democracy is fascist since it too values majority rule. Still ignoring everything.

 

[Sidhe]

Somehow this thread reaks of trolls and Christian bashing .

Well, OK, but no ones bashing you yet, although give it time, you've been in an oddly confrontational mood recently, it's most unlike you. Don't forget that some of us place tolerance above judgement, there is some maturity in the deal, and as a good Christian you should turn the other cheek. It's not for you to become angered by the statements of the unbelievers, but to tolerate, people are able to judge stupid criticism far better than you give them credit for.

 

[ComradeDavo]

I did get banned for it. For a week.

Were not allowed to discuss moderator actions....so better drop this line of discussion.

 

[Masquerouge]

It is Christianity that brought the concepts of 'freedom' to the world.

A bold statement. And probably not true. Some parts of the world were a lot freer before the Christians came.
But of course, they were not really Christians, I guess.

To see a group of people, whose foundation of beliefs is 'freedom from rules' to be accused of forcing rules on others.... well it's just appalling.

Yet is has happened a lot, so it should not come as a big surprise that people think that, whether it's true or not.

 

[GenMarshall]

Oh please, you complain everytime an aspect of Christianity is critized.

The association of Christians and Fascism is quite illogical from my point of view. The majority, key word "MAJORITY", of Christians do NOT support Fascism or anything related to that political philosophy.

But don't criticize Muslims or you will be banned!

Nah, The Muslims would just cry out for the blood of the poster whom criticized their faith .

 

[ComradeDavo]

Democracy is fascist since it too values majority rule. Still ignoring everything.

Democracy is electing a system. So it's perfectly capable of electing a majority rules system that has aspects in common with facism....i.e. suppression of the individual.

 

[ComradeDavo]

The association of Christians and Fascism is quite illogical from my point of view. The majority, key word "MAJORITY", of Christians do NOT support Fascism or anything related to that political philosophy.

Just read what I already typed already will ya?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4747581&postcount=43

Essentially...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

Fascism is a radical political ideology that combines elements of corporatism, authoritarianism, nationalism, militarism and anti-liberalism

Certaianlly the Christian Right is authoritarian and nationalistic, and it's stance on abortion, gays, drugs and free speach is certainally anti-Liberal. The support for the Iraq war and glorification of the troops and the obsession with the flag can come across as quite militaristic to.

 

[Little Raven]

I don't care about the term. I was talking about that guy who called me a fascist and that was it so I don't see what you are getting at.

What I'm trying to do, my friend, is subtly ( ) point out that you appear to have one standard for Christians, and another for non-Christians. This appearance does a real number on your credibility. You're a smart guy, and you have some good points to make. But those tend to get lost behind an obviously slanted veneer.

 

[The Tollan]

...but there's nothing fascist about them either. Fascism is not a code word for 'bad.' It is a merging of the corporation and the state, with a hefty chunk of militarism and nationalism thrown in as a binding agent. If you're going to object to the term Christian Fascists on the basis that it is inaccurate, then I'd expect to see you come out against Islamofascist as well.

This is a sensible position. Although all totalitarians share in a common totalitarianism they carry ideological differences which are substantive. The fact that Mussolini's government (as well as Stalin & the government of many other autocrats) was substantively different from the Taliban is interesing when one examines these political-ideological systems. Note: Although I do not view the Taliban as fascist as many who appear on T.V. apparently saw it (or its remains) I have very negative views towards it. Whether or not it is classified as fascist does not have a large impact on its negative aspects.

@ComradeDavo I did not mean to seem dismissive towards what you are talking about (if my first post sounded that way). I agree that authoritarians (in this case I just mean those who support a government which regulates or directs behavior) are all authoritarian while totalitarians are all totalitarian. I mainly quibble with the use of the term fascism in ways which may become popular and begin to change its definition in a way it should not (well at least in my opinion) go. How significant the common authoritarianism is depends on the context and situation perhaps.

 

[Katheryn]

Of course! That makes sense! Sweden is a very very very much fire-pot that is ready to blow up! (I'm being sarcastic if you didn't notice.)

But really, I don't get it why you view muslems as bad. My best friends are muslems. My class is about 33% swedes, the rest are immigrants! Vietnamese, Chinese, Russians, Germans, Irish, and Persians(Iranians) to say a few. You're statement doesn't make sense at all, I'm getting sick by your way of logic.

I don't think they are "bad", but I think they believe in a political ideology that they believe God demands they live under, that just doesn't work inside a western democracy. That socio-political ideology is Islam.

Oil and water aren't BAD, they just don't MIX.

If they want to live in a democracy, then embrace it, if they want to live in an Islamic society, then they should immigrate to one. There are many to choose from all over the world!

The reason why they immigrate to the west is because they receive some kind of benefit from it. If that is so, then they shouldn't bring withi them the same social system that they want to leave. Why is that illogical?

That system is Sharia. It is a system of subjugation and religious tyranny.

I like in one of the most diverse cities in America. We have Vietnamese, Mexican, my neighbor across the street is Japanese, we have an Indian Buddhist next door. There is a lady from Lebanon down the street. I chose to live here. It is not a matter of different nationalities.

We are talking about the social system, the form of government that we live under. To embrace the U.S. Constitution during a citizenship ritual (my sister-in-law from the Philippines just did this) demands that people set aside hopes for another type of political system in this country. To push for another system (ie Sharia) is wrong.