Civ 5 Icon Competition - Final Round!

[Akkon888]

I disagree. This was the format that was agreed upon. If Civ 5 was truly more popular than the various iterations of ciV then more of them would have made it to the finals.

The Civ5 logo was the only logo of kind of the 91 logos available.

The whining continues. This is a fair and democratic poll. Whatever is chosen, everyone should abide by.

It's really not that hard a concept.

So, I assume that this poll is democratic, and that you support it. Then, why do you insist on "the format that was agreed upon" if another idea of how to run this poll (such as the idea of da_Vinci) is being brought up? I don't remember anyone voting to agree on a poll system.

 

[pesgores]

If I am looking at a post for 5 seconds, I will be mistaken alot if the logo has a CiV format.

Look at the forum! It is Civ4 and Civ5 general discussion, not CIV and CiV general discussion. Which one is less confusing? The one with numbers.

I have to go with the logo with the number 5 in it. The others might take longer than half a second to recognize when casually reading posts.

Civ5!

Support'd!

 

[da_Vinci]

But really I prefer #13 (big V behind civ).

And I really dislike all variations on ciV, where the same v stands for both the end of civ and five.

Exactly, I only voted on Civ5 because it has a chance of surpassing ciV.

Two examples of the "anything but "CIV" movement, which may be (due to its ambiguity) the majority opinion ... we need to discern this.

To put my proposal into concrete terms, next step (give results to date) would be a runoff among Candidates 2, 3, 5, and 13 (the current four top vote getters, which happen to represent the four themes).

Or if one thinks that #13 is not really the same theme as #7, then add #7 to the runoff and you have the top five vote getters, and all the ones with over 6% of the votes.

If no 50% winner in the round of 4 (or 5), then drop lowest and re-vote, repeat process until a 50% winner. This is important so that folks can vote for what they really prefer, not just vote what is likely to win to prevent what they don't like from winning. (Third party candidates in the US would probably get more votes if there were a runoff of the top two after the first vote.)

dV

 

[Winston Hughes]

Yeah, I hope there is some sort of administrative veto on this since apparently mob rule results in extremely confusing decisions.

I guess you didn't notice Thunderfall voting for #2 only a few posts earlier.

It seems that, barring a late surge for #5, monarch and mob will be in agreement this time.

 

[Thormodr]

The Civ5 logo was the only logo of kind of the 91 logos available.




So, I assume that this poll is democratic, and that you support it. Then, why do you insist on "the format that was agreed upon" if another idea of how to run this poll (such as the idea of da_Vinci) is being brought up? I don't remember anyone voting to agree on a poll system.

If there truly was great interest in a Civ 5 icon then more would have been designed. Obviously people didn't care enough.

It's stupid to change the election rules just because the icon that is winning is not popular with the some people. Just accept whatever icon wins. It isn't a hard concept here.

Sounds like sour grapes to me. If they overturn the election can I whine and complain and get a re-election too? We could do this indefinitely.

 

[PieceOfMind]

It's stupid to change the election rules just because the icon that is winning is not popular with the some people. Just accept whatever icon wins. It isn't a hard concept here.

It's also not a hard concept to understand why so many people have a problem with the current leader - the CIV style icon.

Whoever it is that designed the icon probably didn't have the civ4 icon in view because if they'd had they'd have realised how much alike the two icons are. Given there's likely to be a good portion of new members with the new civ5 forum, it would not be surprising if many of them voting for that icon simply didn't realise how much like the civ4 icon it is.

It's fair to say it's not something that should be heavily complained about but you have to admit the reasons people have a problem with it are very simple and obvious.

Sounds like sour grapes to me. If they overturn the election can I whine and complain and get a re-election too? We could do this indefinitely.

Of course you can. But keep in mind, it's not about "overturning" the election result, as if this is some democratic government and people are trying to cause a coup. It is about refining the election result because the likely result from this poll is an icon that had barely over 20% approval.

And by the way, this couldn't possibly continue indefinitely. With a finite number of candidates, and even if you took the most drawn out method possible, you'd only have n-1 polls at most. If you halved the number of candidates each time, which is probably still too drawn out, you'd only get roughly log2(n) polls.


*************

My recommendation would be to trim the results of this poll to 4 candidates and if the result of that poll is not more than 40% in favour of any one icon, then go to 2 candidates for the final.



Any voting scheme where there is a large number of candidates and no distribution of preferences and the winner can have significantly less than 50% vote is a bad voting scheme. This is because similarity between candidates actually hurts their chances to win.

Consider for example a country with four states where there is an election for a single leader to govern all four states. Suppose there are five candidates. Four of them have policies that are widely considered fair to all the states, though differing in details. The remaining candidate is very unfair in the sense he proposes to divide up funding between states so that one of the states gets 90% of the total and the other three states get shafted. That particular candidate is going to be very very popular in one of the states. If we assume each state has the same population, then with nearly 25% of the vote there's a good chance that candidate will win the election and govern the four states. This example is a very simple illustration of why it is a bad voting scheme when a candidate can win with significantly less than 50% of the total vote and there are no distribution of preferences.

The weird thing about this poll is that as best I can tell, neither of the two leading candidates would be the winner if this poll was done step by step. This is because many people dislike the CIV icon yet many of the people who like that icon probably dislike the civ5 icon because it's boring. IMHO it would be one of the "V" icons that would actually eventually get the majority vote.

 

[Thormodr]

It's also not a hard concept to understand why so many people have a problem with the current leader - the CIV style icon.

Whoever it is that designed the icon probably didn't have the civ4 icon in view because if they'd had they'd have realised how much alike the two icons are. Given there's likely to be a good portion of new members with the new civ5 forum, it would not be surprising if many of them voting for that icon simply didn't realise how much like the civ4 icon it is.

It's fair to say it's not something that should be heavily complained about but you have to admit the reasons people have a problem with it are very simple and obvious.


Of course you can. But keep in mind, it's not about "overturning" the election result, as if this is some democratic government and people are trying to cause a coup. It is about refining the election result because the likely result from this poll is an icon that had barely over 20% approval.

And by the way, this couldn't possibly continue indefinitely. With a finite number of candidates, and even if you took the most drawn out method possible, you'd only have n-1 polls at most. If you halved the number of candidates each time, which is probably still too drawn out, you'd only get roughly log2(n) polls.


*************

My recommendation would be to trim the results of this poll to 4 candidates and if the result of that poll is not more than 40% in favour of any one icon, then go to 2 candidates for the final.



Any voting scheme where there is a large number of candidates and no distribution of preferences and the winner can have significantly less than 50% vote is a bad voting scheme. This is because similarity between candidates actually hurts their chances to win.

Consider for example a country with four states where there is an election for a single leader to govern all four states. Suppose there are five candidates. Four of them have policies that are widely considered fair to all the states, though differing in details. The remaining candidate is very unfair in the sense he proposes to divide up funding between states so that one of the states gets 90% of the total and the other three states get shafted. That particular candidate is going to be very very popular in one of the states. If we assume each state has the same population, then with nearly 25% of the vote there's a good chance that candidate will win the election and govern the four states. This example is a very simple illustration of why it is a bad voting scheme when a candidate can win with significantly less than 50% of the total vote and there are no distribution of preferences.

The weird thing about this poll is that as best I can tell, neither of the two leading candidates would be the winner if this poll was done step by step. This is because many people dislike the CIV icon yet many of the people who like that icon probably dislike the civ5 icon because it's boring. IMHO it would be one of the "V" icons that would actually eventually get the majority vote.

Actually, quite a few people do like the ciV style icon. About 40% in fact. Much more so than the Civ 5 one. Counting all the variations of the ciV style icon, it's somewhere in the neighborhood of 2 to 1 compared with Civ 5.

 

[da_Vinci]

If there truly was great interest in a Civ 5 icon then more would have been designed. Obviously people didn't care enough.

It's stupid to change the election rules just because the icon that is winning is not popular with the some people. Just accept whatever icon wins. It isn't a hard concept here.

Sounds like sour grapes to me. If they overturn the election can I whine and complain and get a re-election too? We could do this indefinitely.

Are you afraid that the CIV motif can't withstand additional rounds of voting, with fewer options?

If it really is the one the majority will support in a smaller field, let's prove it.

If it is not, let's find that out. I really can't see any good argument against a further runoff process.

I would be suggesting further runoff if it was my favorite icon winning with only 21% ...

dV

 

[xcrissxcrossx]

If I could, I would vote for every icon that isn't "CiV"

 

[Akkon888]

40% is a weak majority. If anything, a 60% majority would satisfy me. But, it probably isn't happening.

Just for my sake, I used a calculator - ciV icon(s) : Civ5 icon = ~2.21:1.

Anyway, voting ends tomorrow, so I do not know what will happen. Honestly, I think that it is easier to use a general CIV icon with context. But, Civ5 had my vote for being clear.

 

[PieceOfMind]

Actually, quite a few people do like the ciV style icon. About 40% in fact. Much more so than the Civ 5 one. Counting all the variations of the ciV style icon, it's somewhere in the neighborhood of 2 to 1 compared with Civ 5.

First of all, when I referred to the CIV style icon I was referring to the leading candidate, not the total of all ones that have the letters "CIV". That's why I didn't refer to the icons (in the plural sense). That fact was pretty clear in my post...

The thing is, many of the CIV icons don't look anywhere near as much like the civ4 icon. For example, the one with CI underlined with a V beside it.

Therefore, you're doing some pretty dodgy statistics to claim the leading candidate has an approximately 40% vote. Many of those who didn't vote for the leading candidate probably aren't satisfied with it just because it's another CIV style candidate. You seem to imply that everyone thinks along the lines of "CIV" or not "CIV". I can almost guarantee you that as I said above, most voting for the other CIV icons don't like the leading candidate for similar reasons to why everyone else doesn't like the leading candidate.

Seriously, out of all the CIV-styled icons, the current leading candidate is probably the worst of the lot for being distinguished from the civ4 icon. This simple fact amazes me. Maybe it's just a really attractive font?

 

[TCB]

How about we have a vote to have another poll with just the top 3 icons, I'm sure that would be fair and I think most would support it. After all, an icon getting accepted with just over 20% is a little absurd and I would be saying this even if the civ5 icon managed to win at the last minute.

 

[Thormodr]

I think the lack of ciV news has gotten to some people. I could give a damn which one wins to be honest but the wailing and gnashing of teeth over this whole issue is beyond me.

"I don't like the one that's winning! It's not fair! It's ugly! Let's change the rules! If we raise a big enough stink we'll get it overturned! Wah! Wah! Wah!"

You'd think this was election fraud on the scale of Bush in 2004 for Pete's sake.

 

[ainwood]

Judges decision is final and no correspondence will be entered in to.

 

[PieceOfMind]

I think the lack of ciV news has gotten to some people. I could give a damn which one wins to be honest but the wailing and gnashing of teeth over this whole issue is beyond me.

It's beyond you yet you never fail to add your 2 cents.

"I don't like the one that's winning! It's not fair! It's ugly! Let's change the rules! If we raise a big enough stink we'll get it overturned! Wah! Wah! Wah!"

Meaningless mockery.

You'd think this was election fraud on the scale of Bush in 2004 for Pete's sake.

Honestly, it sounds like you're the only one who thinks this is a big issue to people. Most of the posts I see are just people engaging in conversation, discussing their beliefs, speculating about the meaning of the poll results, expressing their surprise at the results etc. Please, point me to a single post that is as childish as your characterisation, or do you just enjoy defensive hyperbole?

Judges decision is final and no correspondence will be entered in to.

No surprises there, and fair enough really.

 

[cephalo]

We need an icon that functions as an icon. People are voting for CIV because it's simple and it looks nice, without understanding the implications. If the icon does not tell us what game it represents, it simply doesn't matter how nice it looks. Someone could make a very nice icon with any letters in the alphabet, HAT, GEF, POOP, whatever, but we need something that will identify at a glance the game Civ 5. Using another CIV icon would be our collective failure.

 

[Akkon888]

Question: When will the icon be implemented so that people can use it?

 

[Vonreuter]

I couldn't care less about which icon you guys choose, but I voted for Civ5 simply because it was the only one that looked like Civilization 5 instead of CIV all over again.

Who can tell the difference between the current CIV and the new CiV? Should I squint at which colour the miniscule "i" is - is it white or yellow? That's a very vague contrast. I think people are voting for CiV just because it looks familiar and thus easy to adapt. It won't do its job, though.

I have to agree with cephalo's "collective failure" but... it's still just one icon, an arrangement of pixels..

 

[Thormodr]

It's beyond you yet you never fail to add your 2 cents.

Meaningless mockery.

Honestly, it sounds like you're the only one who thinks this is a big issue to people. Most of the posts I see are just people engaging in conversation, discussing their beliefs, speculating about the meaning of the poll results, expressing their surprise at the results etc. Please, point me to a single post that is as childish as your characterisation, or do you just enjoy defensive hyperbole?


No surprises there, and fair enough really.

Well, I cast my vote and thought I was done with the whole affair.

Surprisingly enough I didn't care about it until I got PMed by a few people about how I shouldn't be using ciV. This in addition to certain other people going off topic to chastise me for using ciV in my posts.
So, that annoyed me sufficiently. I really am not bothered about the results as much as some of the childishness going on from the Civ 5 lobby. That's not to say all of the people. Just some of the people who think they have to tell other people what to do.

 

[cephalo]

Well, I cast my vote and thought I was done with the whole affair.

Surprisingly enough I didn't care about it until I got PMed by a few people about how I shouldn't be using ciV. This in addition to certain other people going off topic to chastise me for using ciV in my posts.
So, that annoyed me sufficiently. I really am not bothered about the results as much as some of the childishness going on from the Civ 5 lobby. That's not to say all of the people. Just some of the people who think they have to tell other people what to do.

Wow, you got hate mail? Lol that's harsh.