Current v1.13 Development Discussion

[Leoreth]

New commit:
- included graphics paging from the Caveman2Cosmos mod: visible plot graphics are only rendered when they are currently in view
- decreased Chinese and Japanese tech speeds
- starting workers appear in the first city you keep, not the first city you acquire

The graphics paging works as follows: everything that is displayed on tiles in sight is only rendered when currently in view. This includes features, improvements, cities, units, and so on. Elements that have recently been rendered are kept in cache to a degree, until something is rendered elsewhere to force it out.

Previously the engine rendered everything on the map, even if you could not see it. So this change is likely to substantially improve performance, especially for the late game where there is lots of stuff on the map. Hopefully minute long AI turns will be over faster now.

I haven't tested this much, only verified that the mechanism works at all and doesn't cause crashes, so please report back.

The downside of this is that if you switch your view to different places, everything on these plots has to be rendered again, which can take a noticeable number of milliseconds. I want to make the feature optional soon, but I thought to get more feedback when it's mandatory for a while

 

[Shadow Warlord]

Sorry for the double-post but I just wanted to illustrate the situation with the vassals.

This is an ideal situation where I'd want to capitulate China.
I had numerous war-successes, didn't lose a single unit, and was ready to take Beijing.
It would be ideal at this stage, if I were able to capitulate them, which is already harder than vanilla BtS,
which I went back and did a quick test game of vanilla on Monarch to test out; the AI capitulates at varying stages,
but usually around 1-3 cities and varying with the number of units I killed in their stacks.
(Fun fact: Catherine capitulated around one city )

In vanilla RFC this was present to some degree, though it could be harder.
Going back to how it was in vanilla RFC seems like a good bet for me.

I'd like to add to this, but this related more to vassals and stability. I was playing as Japan recently and England, who had several cities in the new world as they should, but for some reason was unstable, capitulated to Spain...and collapsed.

1. Civs that capitulate should get an immediate stability boost to stable to prevent a situation like this.

2. There are some civs in Europe that need help with their stability so they don't collapse so often. Mainly i'm looking at Vikings, a civ that doesn't overexpand execpt for the occasional foray into Germany, but they regulary collapse by 1400-1500, and i've often seen them collapse to core when they only have 5 cities, two of which are in historical territory. Idk what the ai is doing to destroy themselves so often, but they need a boost badly. HRE also has a tendency to collapse before they become Austria, but they generally suffer from overexpansion/being conquered by France/Turkey.

- decreased Chinese and Japanese tech speeds

Just to clarify, when you say decrease you mean it takes them longer to research right? If so, why is Japan getting a nerf? Even with their new UP, you're still trudging through the renaissance with their tech rate.

 

[Leoreth]

Oh well, I'm already hatching plans for another substantial modification of the stability system. Not sure how serious this is and when I will get to it though.

I will however do something about vassals and vassalization soon. Speaking of that, what is the usual AI response to capitulation offers when they have all but lost their war and are close to being destroyed? "Surely you must be joking"? I've just seen that this is an AI response if your war success doesn't exceed theirs by at least four cities. That's not much by BtS standards but in RFC it is.

 

[Leoreth]

Just to clarify, when you say decrease you mean it takes them longer to research right? If so, why is Japan getting a nerf? Even with their new UP, you're still trudging through the renaissance with their tech rate.

The Japan change was very slight, but in my games their research came out a bit too fast.

 

[need my speed]

How did you implement this paging method, if I may ask? I'm pretty sure I'll look into merging .dll's and all once more sometime soon, and presumably, this paging method involves doing that as well, so I may as well implement that right away.

 

[Leoreth]

I didn't implement it myself, it's from the Caveman2Cosmos mod. I haven't invested the time to understand the memory management aspect, only enough to figure out how to insert it into the code.

It's very isolated from the rest of the code though and easier to do than I expected. What kind of DLL are you working on?

 

[need my speed]

'Working on', none, but my own mod uses the RevolutionDCM .dll (I could upload it, if you wish?). For a long time (years), I've been wanting to add some XML tags (buildings give commerce with resources, for example), but I've never been able to successfully compile (and thus merge) .dll's. I feel like trying again after I get a new PC (next Thursday), and considering how often (practically - literally? - always) I abandon my games because of the inbetween turn time, this sounds highly interesting.

 

[youtien]

Japanese UP is not working. I've WBed several circumstances and none of them worked.

 

[LacsiraxAriscal]

Yeah, I got no new techs when I played as them.

 

[citis]

New commit:
- AI will ignore the value of wonders in techs if they cannot be built
- Watermills receive +2 commerce with Electricity
- Lumber Mills become available with Guilds
- new Guilds civic effect: Medium upkeep, +1 gold per specialist, double production for Forge, Market, Grocer
- new Dynasticism effect: Low upkeep, +1 happiness per military unit up to a maximum of 4, +1 happiness from Palace
- new Theocracy effect: High upkeep, +2 happiness with state religion, double priest slots, +2 experience with state religion, +1 unhappiness from non-state religions

Good. Only I have to mention is that mercantilism is still worse than guilds. The reason is that mercantilism kills foreign trade routes. It isn't even a good protectionist civic, you get the plague eventually.

 

[Leoreth]

'Working on', none, but my own mod uses the RevolutionDCM .dll (I could upload it, if you wish?). For a long time (years), I've been wanting to add some XML tags (buildings give commerce with resources, for example), but I've never been able to successfully compile (and thus merge) .dll's. I feel like trying again after I get a new PC (next Thursday), and considering how often (practically - literally? - always) I abandon my games because of the inbetween turn time, this sounds highly interesting.

Ah okay, well in any case I've labeled all related code as "graphics paging"

Japanese UP is not working. I've WBed several circumstances and none of them worked.

Yeah, I got no new techs when I played as them.

Saves please. Before entering the new era.

 

[MechatronicJazz]

On the topic of vassals, is it possible to allow human player vassalization? Basically to allow the human player to give up war/peace control to an AI? I know that might seem odd, but there are certain civs (like Canada) that it makes sense for, both historically and for game-play.

 

[Manuss]

It's possible using worldbuilder, but it's not in-game. At least, for now.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

Just to clarify, when you say decrease you mean it takes them longer to research right? If so, why is Japan getting a nerf? Even with their new UP, you're still trudging through the renaissance with their tech rate.

I'm inclined to agree. I certainly hope this is not global.

The AI Tech Speed is one thing, but if you've tested the player tech speed,
it can be abysmal if you mess up.
Can we give them some player controlled bonuses instead?

 

[mitsuko]

I just played a game as Japan as was left in the dust by the European powers in tech even running the slider at 100% and managing what techs my 2 vassals (Korea and Tibet) were reseaerching. I just could not keep up even though I had like 15 cities.

 

[Arizael]

Feedback:
Tech: After updating to the new SVN and starting fresh Greek game, I am experiencing unpleasantly frequent crashes. Usually the CIV just stops responding, once i had ingame critical error message .


RFC crashes has been super rare for me so far. I am suspecting the new graphic mod is behind them. The mod looks cool though, cutting down turn timer is always useful.

Gameplay: Building oracle as Greece is nightmare. Probably the only way i could beat Babylonians to it, would be rushing priesthood and excessive choping.

It also feels weird to see chariots easily stomp hoplites, but I guess there are balance reasons, so the Greece actualy builds some spearmen.

 

[Lone Wolf]

Ah, the days of Vanilla Civ, when Hoplite was a str 5 Spearman replacement.

 

[BenZL43]

Leoreth, I was about to create this thread about Bakuel's new Javanese unit when I double check and found out you already aware of and even replied to the thread. Looking forward to see it in the DoC soon.

 

[Leoreth]

Yeah, I hope I can get around to that when 1.13 is released. It'll only be part of the VD module though.

 

[Eric Cartmenez]

Hello Leoreth, concerning the sentence "around to that when 1.13 is released" ... is there some rough date where this /releasing v1.13 for us noSNV guys/ will happen in your mind right now? Thx