[RD] Daily Graphs and Charts

[Paul in Saudi]

Oh, and the fast-growing economies for 2018.

 

[JohannaK]

Ouch, poor Puerto Rico.

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

 

[stfoskey12]

Why do the taxes increase so much over time?

 

[Cutlass]

Why do the taxes increase so much over time?

Design. The whole plan is to raise taxes on most Americans to cut taxes on the richest. But they need to sell it as a tax cut for all. So the 'cuts' for anyone not fully rich expire, and the cuts for the rich do not.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Design. The whole plan is to raise taxes on most Americans to cut taxes on the richest. But they need to sell it as a tax cut for all. So the 'cuts' for anyone not fully rich expire, and the cuts for the rich do not.

This is exactly right. The Republicans have already structured the tax overhaul such that it is partially offset by a real rise in taxes to the poor and middle class. Then, to make the long term budget picture a little better (still blowing up the deficit overall), they are trying to sunset the few tax breaks they are giving to the poor and middle class while carrying the tax cuts to the rich and businesses on forever.

This is naked wealth distribution to the rich. I was going to say that as long as Trump keeps throwing out lies about how a middle class person will get $2,000 a year in tax cuts, people will believe it. Then I remembered that this tax bill is actually deeply unpopular and the majority of the public don't actually believe his lies.

Unfortunately, the unpopularity of the tax bill doesn't seem to have an impact on whether or not it will pass. Though I was wrong about the Obamacare repeal in this regard so maybe there is hope.

 

[warpus]

Seems like this is going to give your middle class less and less of a disposable income over time. Isn't that bad for the American economy in the long term? I suppose the 1% can just make money by selling their products and services to overseas markets, but you'd also think that they'd have an interest in keeping the middle class in America strong as well.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

They claim that helping the rich and corporations will indirectly help the poor and middle class.

I actually just watched a news clip of a conference with Trump's econmic advisor and the CEOs of mega corporations. The moderator asked how many companies plan on using the tax cut to increase wages and hiring. Almost none raised their hand - the cuts will go to dividends and CEO pay. Unfortunately facts like this mean nothing to the Republican party. They have either bought into their own propoganda wholely or are acting in the interests of their donors no matter the consequences.

I would also go so far as to say we have reached a point where corporate profitability is tied as much to financial manipulation and tax cheating as it is to sales to the middle class so they are fairly well insulated to the problems faced by the middle class.

 

[Lexicus]

I actually just watched a news clip of a conference with Trump's econmic advisor and the CEOs of mega corporations. The moderator asked how many companies plan on using the tax cut to increase wages and hiring. Almost none raised their hand - the cuts will go to dividends and CEO pay. Unfortunately facts like this mean nothing to the Republican party. They have either bought into their own propoganda wholely or are acting in the interests of their donors no matter the consequences.

Yes, I read an article recently, I think it might've been in the NYT, that said that corporations are quite openly saying they will use the tax break money to pay off their own shareholders, rather than to increase wages or hire new people.

The real problem, of course, is that the Democratic Party also buys into this whole nonsense about supply-side measures to make it easier for the rich to invest and grow the economy. Their "better deal" plan, as I keep repeating, included tax breaks for small business for this reason. This whole idea needs to be shot in the head (or better yet, burned alive) and we need to understand that it's far more efficient to create investment by giving poor and middle-class people money to spend. This creates profitable investment outlets which business will take advantage of.

Incidentally, the Republicans have been quite open that this is about satisfying the donors.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...use-republicans-tax-bill-donors-chris-collins
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/22/us/politics/republican-donors-obamacare-repeal.html
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ething-take-aim-senate-gop-leaders/750809001/

 

[Cutlass]

Seems like this is going to give your middle class less and less of a disposable income over time. Isn't that bad for the American economy in the long term? I suppose the 1% can just make money by selling their products and services to overseas markets, but you'd also think that they'd have an interest in keeping the middle class in America strong as well.

Conservative political economics uses the rhetoric of growth, but is exclusively concerned with distribution. Liberal political economics uses the rhetoric of distribution, but is far more effective at creating growth.

 

[warpus]

Conservative political economics uses the rhetoric of growth, but is exclusively concerned with distribution.

But how can you have growth if you starve out the middle class? Isn't the middle class what drives a consumer-based economy?

 

[Takhisis]

Oh look, the UK is on that chart. I can't think why.

EU membership.

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

But how can you have growth if you starve out the middle class? Isn't the middle class what drives a consumer-based economy?

The donor money is more important than economic health.

 

[Cutlass]

But how can you have growth if you starve out the middle class? Isn't the middle class what drives a consumer-based economy?

Conservatives on economics don't give a flying frak about growth. Distribution is what matters. Growth is just rhetoric to get what they want. Any and all growth is incidental to the plan.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

But how can you have growth if you starve out the middle class? Isn't the middle class what drives a consumer-based economy?

There is a genuine, if misguided, belief that helping corporations and the rich really will help everyone else.

It's a seductive argument because yeah, corporations hire people. If you help them, they should hire more people and pay them better. Unfortunately, due to a lot of other factors (like death of organized labor and the relaxation of labor laws, etc), this theory does not match with our current reality.

And of course there is the donor issue and the need to avoid being targeted by opposing moneyed interests. A lot of these actions are as much to protect themselves from attack as it is to help their favored donors. The NRA doesn't give every Republican a ton of funding but they sure as hell will attack any Republican that crosses their lines.

 

[Samson]

 

[Arakhor]

No Niels Bohr? I'm offended.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

You forgot to throw down your white glove.

 

[Kyriakos]

No Niels Bohr? I'm offended.

No Archimedes either, despite his Eureka.

 

[civvver]

This is exactly right. The Republicans have already structured the tax overhaul such that it is partially offset by a real rise in taxes to the poor and middle class. Then, to make the long term budget picture a little better (still blowing up the deficit overall), they are trying to sunset the few tax breaks they are giving to the poor and middle class while carrying the tax cuts to the rich and businesses on forever.

This is naked wealth distribution to the rich. I was going to say that as long as Trump keeps throwing out lies about how a middle class person will get $2,000 a year in tax cuts, people will believe it. Then I remembered that this tax bill is actually deeply unpopular and the majority of the public don't actually believe his lies.

Unfortunately, the unpopularity of the tax bill doesn't seem to have an impact on whether or not it will pass. Though I was wrong about the Obamacare repeal in this regard so maybe there is hope.

I'm middle class and will save about $2000 on my taxes next year if the senate version goes through. If house version I'll save about $1200 (all directly tied to the increase child credit under senate plan).

The rich are getting a much larger break in terms of real dollars and percentage, and I am not in favor of the bill, but I don't see how this could raise taxes on any poor person, or any middle class person outside of those with houses in high tax states like CA and east coast states.