Dawn of Civilization - an RFC modmod by Leoreth

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J. pride

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Are Byzantine Naples and Indie North Africa going to be in the next version or do u plan on dealing with that later?

Since u are already working on Persia and Turkish balance, I think this is the best time to add the Safavids. I know that u plan to add the Safavids some time in the future but if u add them now will several advantages:
1) Solves half the Turkish problem.
2) You wont have to balance things twice (if u add the Safavids later u might have to balance the turks accordingly)
3) it will save some time since u are already working on rebirth mechanics
 

Cosmos1985

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Been reading through the thread the latest days - I really have too much time around as of now! - and dug up some interesting ideas/proposals, that I'd like to bring attention to again, etc. - lot of good ideas spread around through the first 100 pages, and a shame to have them buried in the forgotten :)

Spoiler :
I've been working on building an RFC modmod myself, and one thing I have in mind is to replace the Dutch UP with the UP India has in Civ5: halved unhappiness from citizens. Why not implement that idea? They rely on Open Borders with other nations anyways and that would make the historical Dutch Republic possible, in contrast to the ahistorical ever-lasting monarchy. The East Indiamen can have the Rival Territory asset by themselves, it's not like the Dutch use it to wage war anyway

I think this is a very good idea - to give the dutch EI their current UP as special ability, and then give them a new UP, that'll help them grow and catch up techwise. As of now they don't stand a chance. My latest game I spawned with Germany having 15 units just in Frankfurt about 20 turns into the game, and after the prot/cath. divided Europe, I could only choose between who I wanted to be crushed by. And they are too far behind in tech, and unable to catch up, which I guess is even worse historically. The new UP could maybe be double happiness from spices, to correspond with their UHV? Or double happiness in Amsterdam from all :)-resourses? A number of options, but they need to be buffed, methinks.
(Now that Aarhus often is founded, they also lose their fish - maybe that should flip to them? Can ocean squares even flip? :confused: And Hamburg sometimes also. So they are extremely crammed in)

The thing with spices reminds me of one of my favourite small modmods ever: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=328203 - the only thing I have ever seen, that makes the hunt for resourses meaningful. Now you actually have an incentive to hoard spices, furs, and cotton! I have no idea how hard it will be to update the files to the current game state - the author of the files aren't around anymore - but it could be absolutely to have this here also. Or something similar. Oh well, a lot of wishes from everybody :) Think I'm gonna bump the Wasp-thread to give it some love, and see if I can convince any of you active modmodders :D

Rise of Mankind had an interesting view on this : whenever you conquer a city, you get a little bit of the knowledge of the civ in one of the techs they have and you don't. You're basically learning some of the techs by warring which I found quite logical since if you conquer a city where the Eiffel tower is built, you're bound to find out that it's made in a strong new metal that could be used very simply by your civ.

I'd like to second this :)

Last point, even though the French UP is useful, it dosen't really represent anything historically (in Europe at least), France being one of the most warmongering nation in history. Why not "start at peace with natives and have better relationship with the civs outside Europe" ?

Seconded :)

Instead of a commerce bonus, I though of a special kind of corporation for the resources sugar, spice and silk that can't be founded but automatically spreads to every city founded in the Carribean / the Spice Islands and India / along the Silk Road and creates gold (and maybe food) according to its specific resources. So you get extra benefit for controlling all of these resources.

- This is a fine suggestion aswell, if implementing NerfCothons Corporations is too complicated, or you for some other reason doesn't want to do that. Anything done to make the resourse hunt meaningful, and the - particularly Euro Civs' struggle for them, would be awesome!

Next aim is to get a "flip the city on the spawn tile should there be one" mechanism like for example the Mamluks have in SoI, this would allow the Byzantines to spawn at Constantinople and guarantee the city to be there whether it was prebuilt or not. Don't know if I can simply borrow edead's code there, because I honestly understand only half of what's going on. Once that works, we can start balancing the UHV for 3000 BC.

Did this get implemented? :) (You go ahead and take a guess at which civ I'm gonna exploit this for then ;) )

- I by the way also noticed discussions of having civs spawn with certain civics already enable (I guess primarily 600AD+ ones); isn't this also worth considering? :) Would also be good flavourwise, increasing the chances of the AI having the civics they're "supposed to have". Some fine suggestions here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10029502&postcount=1858

Lastly - there is not more now, I promise :D - I think we should shamelessly copy the Harald Hårderåde LH from RFC:E; He's a better well known figure than Ragnar, he is not fictional for sure, and the animation is soooo kewl :)


Speaking of Scandinavia, I'd be happy to put a suggestion together. And I think we misunderstood each other about my previous post mein freund, I was just trying to stress that I was only making suggestions, and of course you should feel free to reject what I'm saying as it of course your modmod. Copenhagen can reach the pigs in Scania now yeah, but so can Oslo, and the german cow is usually taken by Hamburg or another German city in the NW. But I'll try and see if I can come up with something meaningful, that'll make both the AI and a Human want to settle the three major scandinavian cities.
 

civ_king

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Bad idea. The i7-2600k is quadcore and Civ4 isn't multicore capable, returning your nominal tact frequence to 1.125 GHz. And it's CPU that counts.

:confused: Each core runs at 4.5GHz, not only that, but when only one core is running it would turbo to ~5GHz.
Furthermore the record clock on air is 5.77 GHz with all four cores running so 4.5GHz is very conservative.
 

dcode147

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Hey Leoreth, can you give both Romans and Greeks the potential to evolve into the Byzantines?

Both Roman and Greek civs would have Byzantine UP, UU and UB. However between Rome and Greece whichever civ is controlling less of Balkans and Anatolia in the year AD330, would receive a massive stability hit (essentially be taken out of the game), and so the surviving civ would represent the Byzantines through dynamic names.


Spoiler :
Romans
- UHV:
1) Control at least one barrack, aqueduct and amphitheater in each of the following regions: Western Europe (not including Italy), Italy, Greece/Balkans, North Africa, Asia(Turkey/Levant) in AD400.
2) (Byzantine) Control at least one forum, hippodrome and courthouse in each of the following regions: Greece/Balkans, Anatolia/Levant, North Africa in AD1450.
3) Other Roman/Byzantine UHV(s)
- UP: Power of Mandate, free drafting 3 legions per turn

Greeks:
- UHV:
1) (Byzantine) Control at least one markplace, hippodrome and courthouse in each of the following regions: Greece/Balkans, Anatolia/Levant, North Africa.

2) Other Greek/Byzantine UHV(s)\

- UP: Same +150% bonus in research until end of middle ages.
 

AOS9001

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Hey Leoreth, can you give both Romans and Greeks the potential to evolve into the Byzantines?

Both Roman and Greek civs would have Byzantine UP, UU and UB. However between Rome and Greece whichever civ is controlling less of Balkans and Anatolia in the year AD330, would receive a massive stability hit (essentially be taken out of the game), and so the surviving civ would represent the Byzantines through dynamic names.

The Greeks turning into Byzantium doesn't make much sense though. The only reason there was Byzantium was that the Romans split their empire in two long after Greece was conquered. It was a Roman creation that later reverted back to Greek culture, so I'm more inclined to go with a Rome-only approach.
 

jammerculture

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The Greeks in this game are the classical Greeks, worshippers of Zeus. The Greeks of Byzantium were not "Greek" in culture, rather they were Romans who spoke a Greek language, culturally very different from their forebearers. An unconquered Greek state would not be Byzantine.
 

Leoreth

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Unique GP names are completely re-implemented now, you can update your SVN now resp. should do so if you updated to one of the corrupt work-in-progress versions the last days.

@Cosmos: Thanks for scanning the thread, I also thought there might be some ideas worth rediscovering, but I never found the motivation to actually do so. I'll comment more specifically on your post later on.
 

dcode147

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The Greeks turning into Byzantium doesn't make much sense though. The only reason there was Byzantium was that the Romans split their empire in two long after Greece was conquered. It was a Roman creation that later reverted back to Greek culture, so I'm more inclined to go with a Rome-only approach.

The Greeks in this game are the classical Greeks, worshippers of Zeus. The Greeks of Byzantium were not "Greek" in culture, rather they were Romans who spoke a Greek language, culturally very different from their forebearers. An unconquered Greek state would not be Byzantine.

Great, even better. If you look through the thread, that's what I wanted initially. A Rome-only transition to a Byzantine civ.

I don't think there's a problem with giving Romans 2 unique units (legions and cataphracts), more UHVs (4 maybe?) and have them represent both Romans and Byzantines.
 

jammerculture

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I would have to argue though that an undivided Rome would not be Byzantine either, rather, Byzantium represents a civilization that is detached from both of its parents and unique enough to warrant its own civilization in game (also why I support the name Byzantine, rather then Eastern Roman). Furthermore, within history as well as in game, Byzantium represents a transition between the ancient and medieval world, and therefore occupies a unique place within history and civ.
 

J. pride

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IP would have to argue though that an undivided Rome would not be Byzantine either, rather, Byzantium represents a civilization that is detached from both of its parents and unique enough to warrant its own civilization in game (also why I support the name Byzantine, rather then Eastern Roman). Furthermore, within history as well as in game, Byzantium represents a transition between the ancient and medieval world, and therefore occupies a unique place within history and civ.

Well said,
Plus i dont get why u guys want to remove the Byzantines. Are they causing problems, are they historically inaccurate or not fun; if none of the above then i dont see why they should be removed
 

The Turk

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The Byzantine are great! Plus Leoreth already put so much work into them, why would you want to remove them now?

@Leoreth
Just updated to the new SVN, but there were several problems as I'm sure you know. Also the Arabian flipped cities come really late, and Jerusalem does not have Christianity:eek:
 

lumpthing

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I would have to argue though that an undivided Rome would not be Byzantine either, rather, Byzantium represents a civilization that is detached from both of its parents and unique enough to warrant its own civilization in game (also why I support the name Byzantine, rather then Eastern Roman).

There are numerous civilizations grouped under "Indian" which were much further apart, politically and culturally, than the Western Roman Empire and the Byzantine Empire (but I'm perfectly happy with Leoreth's reasons for having the Byzantines as a separate civ).
 

Leoreth

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The Byzantine are great! Plus Leoreth already put so much work into them, why would you want to remove them now?

@Leoreth
Just updated to the new SVN, but there were several problems as I'm sure you know. Also the Arabian flipped cities come really late, and Jerusalem does not have Christianity:eek:
Problems? Do you get error messages? I don't.
 

DisposableHero

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Hi again Leoreth. Hate to tell you this, but Aztec-catapault-marathon/epic bug is still there :p

Also got a bug with Portugal. A green square showed up for their spawn area. But the units actually spawned outside of this (was still treated as Spanish territory, I guess?). The green square vanished in the time it took for the settler to get to the Lisbon location, kicking them back out and into a tiny corner in the north-west.
 

azander12

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Speaking of Byzantines, is it crazy that I think they would make a great Yugoslav conditional respawn in the late 1800's? It would destabilize Germany, which I find always seems to dominate my games, along with England....
 

AOS9001

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Speaking of Byzantines, is it crazy that I think they would make a great Yugoslav conditional respawn in the late 1800's? It would destabilize Germany, which I find always seems to dominate my games, along with England....

Well, by the 1800s, Germany will be split between Prussia-Germany and Austria-Germany, Austria should come to dominate the Balkans/lower East Europe, while Prussia gets Germany proper and the upper East Europe/Baltic (fight for it with Russia).
 

The Turk

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You know what a cool feature to add would be. Think of the Prusso-Austrian War or the Prusso-Franco War, or pretty much any war after that, you would just fight a border skirmish or capture the capital and then leave, forcing the other player to pay indictments to you. I don't know if its practical, but it would be cool if you were playing as Prussia, and then invade France, just for the money, or if you demand a city with a high enough amount of your culture in it. That would be pretty sweet.

I like the changes you made, but here are some comments/suggestions:
1. Please add Christianity to Jerusalem
2. Please move the stone from underneath Baghdad in the 600 AD start to a more convenient location, like right next to it.
3. I would move the Arab start date till later, Muhammed died in 632 AD, he was not even alive in 600 AD.
4. Please give the Byzantines North Africa, and Naples, which they deserve as legacy to Justinian's conquests.
5. Why are you suppressing Aarhus spawn? I think its a great city, which stops an ahistorical Netherlands from expanding there, or even the Germans. Please make Aarhus a more ideal location actually.

I'll post up some more comments later...
 

Leoreth

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I like the changes you made, but here are some comments/suggestions:
1. Please add Christianity to Jerusalem
It's rather pointless to do so, as the Arabian UP will erase it anyway after the city flips.
2. Please move the stone from underneath Baghdad in the 600 AD start to a more convenient location, like right next to it.
I think the stone is good where it is.
3. I would move the Arab start date till later, Muhammed died in 632 AD, he was not even alive in 600 AD.
In 3000 BC they do, but I don't think is wrong to have them playable from the start in 600 AD (they won't do much before the flip anyway).
4. Please give the Byzantines North Africa, and Naples, which they deserve as legacy to Justinian's conquests.
Please update the SVN, they now control Naples instead of Tripolitania.
5. Why are you suppressing Aarhus spawn? I think its a great city, which stops an ahistorical Netherlands from expanding there, or even the Germans. Please make Aarhus a more ideal location actually.
I didn't suppress anything. I only moved the fish away to not make it better than it reasonably should be, but more importantly to make sure it's in Amsterdam's cross.
 

Kilroy Was Here

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I appear to be having a problem as the Byzantines. Not only is all of their info (UHV, UB, UU) a bunch of Xs so is their starting date and load time.

When I DO load, I am immediately defeated. Is this a thing that happens a lot?

EDIT: Woops, there's the problem, it didn't install the files for them correctly! Fixed that.
 
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